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jelloshotsrule

macrumors G3
Original poster
Feb 7, 2002
9,596
4
serendipity
i posted this in the ibm thread in community, and realized it'd be better suited here probably

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/15/opinion/15HERB.html


I.B.M. Families Ask, 'Why?'
By BOB HERBERT


GOSHEN, N.Y.

The Daley twins, Kate and Kelly, are 24 years old, witty, charming and, above all, intelligent. You couldn't necessarily tell from just talking with them that they had been the victims of a catastrophe.

But you can tell by looking at them.

Kate and Kelly have been profoundly disfigured by a rare degenerative skin disease that literally ravaged their bodies from head to foot. They were born with the disease, epidermolysis bullosa. Its appalling effect has been comparable to being burned every day of one's life.

The twins' bodies are almost completely covered with blisters, sores and terrible wounds that resist healing. They have undergone more than 30 surgeries each. The disease and relentless surgery have all but destroyed their hands, which are now little more than stumps. At times they are unable to open their eyes because of corneal abrasions. When they testified before Congress three years ago in a plea for more funding for research on the disease, Kelly said, "I live in a body that has turned on itself."

When I asked during an interview last week how they managed to keep their spirits up, Kate gave a wry laugh and said, "Antidepressants help."

I interviewed them in the office of one of their lawyers, William DeProspo, and in the presence of their father, Chris Daley, who was employed at the I.B.M. plant in East Fishkill, N.Y., from 1973 to 1993. During most of that time he worked extensively with chemicals, pouring and mixing them, storing them and disposing of them, he said. Many of the chemicals were extremely dangerous, and he believes his exposure to them was the cause of the birth defects that have plagued his daughters.

Many of the damage suits brought against I.B.M. by individuals claiming to have been harmed by chemicals in the workplace involve birth defects suffered by the children of employees. The stories are inevitably heartbreaking. Heather Curtis said she worked with chemicals at I.B.M. while she was pregnant in 1980. Her daughter, Candacé, was born with microcephaly, an abnormality that retarded the development of her brain, and no knees. She was unable to breathe on her own and was not physically capable of talking. Ms. Curtis has a son who was born before Candacé and a son born after her, and both are normal.

Nancy LaCroix has worked for about 20 years at I.B.M.'s huge plant in Essex Junction, near Burlington, Vt. She said she worked in areas in which she was surrounded by chemical fumes ("it really smelled bad in there") and employees at times had to leave their work stations because of burning eyes and nostrils.

In 1999 her daughter Ally was born with severe bone defects, including encephalocele, a condition in which a portion of the brain protrudes through a defect in the skull. Ally's fingers are stunted and "tapered like a starfish," said Ms. LaCroix, "and she really doesn't have toes."

The child has had eight operations and extensive physical therapy. Now 4 1/2, she complains about headaches "every single day," her mother said.

There is a long list of young people and children who have suffered tragic birth defects — spina bifida, missing or deformed limbs, a missing kidney, a missing vagina, blindness — whose parents (in some cases both parents) worked for I.B.M. and are now suing.

Plaintiffs' lawyers contend there are higher than normal rates of birth defects among I.B.M. employees who have worked with the toxic chemicals that are common to semiconductor manufacturing.

One of the lawyers, Steven Phillips of Manhattan, said: "These cases are extreme. I've never seen children as badly hurt as these."

I.B.M. strongly denies that there are more instances of birth defects in the children of its employees than among the population in general. And representatives have repeatedly said there is no scientific evidence associating chemicals in its workplaces with birth defects, cancers or any other illnesses or abnormalities.

The legal process will determine whether the plaintiffs in these suits deserve to be compensated. The larger question is whether the chemicals used in the semiconductor industry, not just at I.B.M. but throughout the U.S. and around the world, have harmed large numbers of workers and their offspring. And if so, what should be done to aid those individuals, and to prevent the harm from continuing.
 

themadchemist

macrumors 68030
Jan 31, 2003
2,820
0
Chi Town
That is a heart-wrenching story...

At what cost do we receive our fancy new gadgets, our faster chips, our modern toys...? What price in lives and health is paid for technological progress?

I am honestly questioning whether I should buy a G5 now, and endorse what is most likely a terrible, disgusting, unforgiveable negligence on the part of IBM.
 

rueyeet

macrumors 65816
Jun 10, 2003
1,070
0
MD
I suspect that there's a heckuva lot we'd never buy, watch, listen to, endorse, or vote for if we really knew the full stories on everything in our society. You have to wonder if Apple is aware of the East Fishkill birth defects as well....
 

B@SS_SHOCK

macrumors member
Jun 3, 2003
72
0
Perth, WA
IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance Between Nazi Germany and America's Most Powerful Corporation

I haven't read the book but i've seen a doco based on that topic. Basically IBM's German branch (forgot name) supplied punchcard machines to the Nazi's to accurately count how many Jewish people were in Germany at the time.
 

wdlove

macrumors P6
Oct 20, 2002
16,568
0
This is trully filled with sad heart wrenching stories. I would hope that IBM would come forward to compensate these victims and their families. Thye need to develope protective gear for thos that work with this chemical!
 

MacBandit

macrumors 604
Originally posted by Stelliform
Before I come to any concusions, I would certainly like to see what percentage of IBM employees had children with birth defects while in the employ of IBM. Then compare that number to the average percentage of children born with birth defects. I know these people have a sad story, but I feel IBM deserves to be innocent until proven guilty.

The second story, where the mother had a child with mental and the other two kids were fine, isn't all that unusual. My wife works with kids that have developmental delays. Often they will have normal siblings.

Just my 2 cents....

Most importantly compare the defect rate with the rest of the population in that area of NY.
 

topicolo

macrumors 68000
Jun 4, 2002
1,672
0
Ottawa, ON
Originally posted by MacBandit
Most importantly compare the defect rate with the rest of the population in that area of NY.

and in the same age group, since age of the mother does affect the frequency of birth defects.
 

MacBandit

macrumors 604
Originally posted by topicolo
and in the same age group, since age of the mother does affect the frequency of birth defects.

Good point. I read about that recently. The article I read says that after about 30 the chance of birth defect goes up dramatically and continues to go up until the mother is no longer capable of having children. From what I understand this is because the female body uses up all the good eggs early in it's life and as she gets older starts using the undesirable eggs.
 

Xapplimatic

macrumors 6502
Oct 23, 2001
417
0
California
Re: Just read this book then


Please.. try to be a bit more dramatic? Old news. Tired... So was BMW.. So was VW.. So was Mitsubishi (Japan), so was.. so was.. big deal. People had to have cars or airplanes regarless of who ran the show.. doesn't taint the companies products IMHO.

If it does, then well as usual, America is the only one who can come out smelling like a self-proclaimed rose! Ha!
 

G4scott

macrumors 68020
Jan 9, 2002
2,225
5
USA_WA
This does sound bad, but I don't think it should stop you from not buying from IBM. It may be just me, but if my eyes started burning, or the chemical smell was way too strong in a room, I think I would think twice about keeping on working. Now this may not have been the case with some of these people, who might have unknowingly been exposed to harmful chemicals, but the article makes it sound like a lot of the people here kept on working in conditions they may have known were harmful. Also, I would've made sure IBM had the proper safety equipment to work with certain chemicals before I would work with them, especially in a research lab...
 

johnnowak

macrumors 6502
Jul 24, 2003
498
1
New York, New York
Originally posted by G4scott
This does sound bad, but I don't think it should stop you from not buying from IBM. It may be just me, but if my eyes started burning, or the chemical smell was way too strong in a room, I think I would think twice about keeping on working. Now this may not have been the case with some of these people, who might have unknowingly been exposed to harmful chemicals, but the article makes it sound like a lot of the people here kept on working in conditions they may have known were harmful. Also, I would've made sure IBM had the proper safety equipment to work with certain chemicals before I would work with them, especially in a research lab...

I assume you also blame the coal miners for getting black lung disease?

I mean.. come on.. they should've known better than to go in a coal mine!
 

jelloshotsrule

macrumors G3
Original poster
Feb 7, 2002
9,596
4
serendipity
Originally posted by G4scott
This does sound bad, but I don't think it should stop you from not buying from IBM. It may be just me, but if my eyes started burning, or the chemical smell was way too strong in a room, I think I would think twice about keeping on working. Now this may not have been the case with some of these people, who might have unknowingly been exposed to harmful chemicals, but the article makes it sound like a lot of the people here kept on working in conditions they may have known were harmful. Also, I would've made sure IBM had the proper safety equipment to work with certain chemicals before I would work with them, especially in a research lab...

yeah, when you're poorly educated, and have a family of 5 to feed.... you don't know any better, and if you do, you don't risk losing the best job the town has to offer.

this **** happens everywhere. in all types of industries. and it needs to stop.
 

MacBandit

macrumors 604
I think everyone is too quick to jump on IBM. How do you know this is a result of working at IBM or if it's maybe just a result of where these people live? Maybe they live under high tension lines or on top of an old land fill or maybe all they eat is Twinkies.
 

scem0

macrumors 604
Jul 16, 2002
7,028
1
back in NYC!
This may sound cold hearted and cruel - but I think that technology is worth the cost.

But that doesn't take away from the sadness of it all.

I wish them the best of luck with their medical problems.

scem0
 

MacBandit

macrumors 604
Originally posted by scem0
This may sound cold hearted and cruel - but I think that technology is worth the cost.

But that doesn't take away from the sadness of it all.

I wish them the best of luck with their medical problems.

scem0

You're right that does sound a bit cold hearted. Maybe you should explain your point some.

If your just talking about building computers that people entertain themselves that's kind of sick. On the other hand you are talking about the advancement of man kind and the potential to save millions of lives. There might be some merit in the second point of view but it's totally unproven and for something like this to happen there better be some evidence that there are lives being saved.


Okay with that said I still am not going to convict IBM of this until the whole picture is taken and we see all the potential outsides causes.
 
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