iDVD3 i-llegal?

iGod

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 16, 2002
44
0
Now that Apple is *charging* for iDVD3, will it be compatible with third party external DVD burners?

If not, is it legal for a computer company to charge for software that forces you to buy their hardware? Sounds a little monopolistic to me.

Any informed legal opinions on this?:(
 

arn

macrumors god
Staff member
Apr 9, 2001
14,271
1,581
Re: iDVD3 i-llegal?

Originally posted by iGod
Now that Apple is *charging* for iDVD3, will it be compatible with third party external DVD burners?

If not, is it legal for a computer company to charge for software that forces you to buy their hardware? Sounds a little monopolistic to me.

Any informed legal opinions on this?:(
1) No indications that iDVD will support external burners.

2) An emphatic "yes, it is legal" - You should look into the legal definition of a monopoly.

arn
 

Nipsy

macrumors 65816
Jan 19, 2002
1,009
0
Re: iDVD3 i-llegal?

Originally posted by iGod

If not, is it legal for a computer company to charge for software that forces you to buy their hardware? Sounds a little monopolistic to me.
You mean like OS X?
 

alset

macrumors 65816
Nov 9, 2002
1,262
0
East Bay, CA
Also sounds like Pro Tools. In most cases you must own Digidesign hardware. I guess that's why they are being hounded with sales.

Dan
 

springscansing

macrumors 6502a
Oct 13, 2002
922
0
New York
Originally posted by alset
Also sounds like Pro Tools. In most cases you must own Digidesign hardware. I guess that's why they are being hounded with sales.

Dan
Digi can **** off. Pro tools isn't even all that great anyway IMO. *uses Cubase SX*
 

Bear

macrumors G3
Jul 23, 2002
8,089
4
Sol III - Terra
Re: iDVD3 i-llegal?

Originally posted by iGod
Now that Apple is *charging* for iDVD3, will it be compatible with third party external DVD burners?

If not, is it legal for a computer company to charge for software that forces you to buy their hardware? Sounds a little monopolistic to me.

Any informed legal opinions on this?:(
The version being offered is a "upgrade" to the current version. Whcih came free with the systems with a SuperDrive.

When you buy various bits of hardware, they come with versions of software that only work with their hardware. This is legal, as other companies that sell similar hardware supply software with their hardware as well.

What would be illegal would be Apple preventing you from installing a third party DVD burner and software to run it..
 

iGod

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 16, 2002
44
0
Thanks, Bear - that makes sense. So I guess I'm out of luck with my un-superdrived TiBook!

Although...on a relatd note, I think it would be logical for apple to sell a superdrive upgrade option for computer models bought within the last 12-18 months - I mean, these people (like me) are certainly not going to buy a whole new computer to have an internal superdrive to use something like iDVD (i.e. it wouldn't really impact sales) - but if there was an upgrade option - or even an external apple DVD burner - isn't that more money in the bank for Apple? And more contented users living the iLife?
 

Billicus

macrumors 6502a
Apr 3, 2002
980
2
Charles City, Iowa
Originally posted by iGod
Thanks, Bear - that makes sense. So I guess I'm out of luck with my un-superdrived TiBook!

Although...on a relatd note, I think it would be logical for apple to sell a superdrive upgrade option for computer models bought within the last 12-18 months - I mean, these people (like me) are certainly not going to buy a whole new computer to have an internal superdrive to use something like iDVD (i.e. it wouldn't really impact sales) - but if there was an upgrade option - or even an external apple DVD burner - isn't that more money in the bank for Apple? And more contented users living the iLife?
But that's the point. You want a Superdrive? You have to go buy a new Macintosh with one included. Apple's in it for the $ too you know, at least they're not as bad as Micro$oft.
 

strider42

macrumors 65816
Feb 1, 2002
1,460
6
a quick lesson on monopolies. They aren't illegal. What is illegal is using your monopoly status to prevent competition (exclusive agreements, levering yoru monopoly in one market to control another like MS did with IE, etc that prevent any one else from entering the market place). since apple does not have a monopoly, they can't possible abuse that staus. Also, nothing prevents anyone else from coming up with software that will work with external drives.

I mean, its kind of like saying, "can you believe that BMW body kits only fit BMW's. Thats monopolistic" Of course they can do it. They make products for their other products, but anyone else can make similar products as well.
 

szark

macrumors 68030
May 14, 2002
2,889
0
Arid-Zone-A
Re: Re: iDVD3 i-llegal?

Originally posted by arn
1) No indications that iDVD will support external burners.
This has been posted in other threads, but the Apple Store summary page for iLife says:

System Requirements

* Macintosh computer with PowerPC G3 or G4 processor.
* 256MB of physical RAM.
* Mac OS X v10.1.5 or later (Mac OS X v10.2.2 or later recommended).
* 2GB disk space required to install iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, and iDVD (Apple SuperDrive required for iDVD) or 250MB disk space to install iTunes, iPhoto, and iMovie only.
 

Quark

macrumors regular
Jan 9, 2002
245
0
Monopolies...

Originally posted by strider42
a quick lesson on monopolies. They aren't illegal.
In the United States of America, monopolies ARE ILLEGAL.

I know others won't like to hear this, but Microsoft was and is not a monopoly. I don't like Microsoft at all, but what they have done are unfair practices to hinder competition. The point is there is competition to hinder.

For monopolies, look at the old Bell phone system, the current USPS, and other businesses where there was no competition whatsoever.

Back on topic though, iDVD is a great way to say "Hey! Look what we can do, that others cannot do." I think it is a great marketing tool for both Apple and the SuperDrive. However, it would be nice if the SuperDrive wasn't a requirement - meaning that other DVD Burners would work.


Quark
 

Wash!!

macrumors 6502
Jan 8, 2002
389
0
here, there, who knows
It will happen in time

When i-Tunes came out for the first time, it also worked only on Apple internal combo-drive and time when on and updates came they added almost all external USB/FW drives for the mac.

Just give time. The programs are not even on the market yet and you people are complaing like old women.
take a chill pill:rolleyes:
 

DaedalusDE

macrumors regular
Jul 15, 2002
106
0
Long Island, NY
Re: Monopolies...

Originally posted by Quark


In the United States of America, monopolies ARE ILLEGAL.

I know others won't like to hear this, but Microsoft was and is not a monopoly. I don't like Microsoft at all, but what they have done are unfair practices to hinder competition. The point is there is competition to hinder.

Quark
Wait just a second there... microsoft is and was a monopoly it just wasnt seen as a big enough threat to other companies to be broken down into smaller microsoft companies... It was brought to trial with the Sherman Anti-Trust Act and was found to be a monopoly and had to pay enormous settlements including one of around 1.1 billion to a few states last week.
 

cubist

macrumors 68020
Jul 4, 2002
2,075
0
Muncie, Indiana
There is a program called DVD Studio Pro which writes external DVDs. And it's from Apple too? :confused: The MPEG2 compressor royalty is apparently around $200. It's an evil software patent. Don't blame Apple, blame the selfish greedy people who think that they should be paid huge amounts of money for relatively minor tweaks to a common software heritage that we all freely enjoy.:mad:
 

rainman::|:|

macrumors 603
Feb 2, 2002
5,438
2
iowa
Monopolies are NOT illegal in the USA, if they were, as an example, KFC would be illegal because no other fast food chains sell fried-chicken. Now KFC doesn't use it's monopoly to prevent other fried-chicken franchises from starting up, or operating, indeed some local franchises exist in localized areas.

think about that one for a minute.

brb, i'm hungry now.

Point is, monopolies can come to be because no other company is interested in competeting. As long as the consumer is not harmed, they're allowed to operate. But if another company *does* want to compete, the monopoly has to take steps to assure fair competition in that industry. Punishing naturally-occuring monopolies would not be fair, hence they are not illegal.

:)
pnw
 

cr2sh

macrumors 68030
May 28, 2002
2,554
1
downtown
Originally posted by springscansing
Digi can **** off. Pro tools isn't even all that great anyway IMO. *uses Cubase SX*
While I agree that ProTools isn't that great... I wouldn't hype Cubase SX either (nor brag of using it). I do agree with you entirely on the fact that Digidesign can **** off... what have they done for us lately?
 

New Guy

macrumors member
Apr 15, 2002
66
0
Connecticut
But that's the point. You want a Superdrive? You have to go buy a new Macintosh with one included. Apple's in it for the $ too you know, at least they're not as bad as Micro$oft.
I am in the market for a DVD burner and I would gladly throw another $300-$400 at Apple for an internal/external burner that would work with iDVD but there is no way I am purchasing another PB less than a year after I purchased my Ti 667 just to get one.

The first burner I find with decent authoring software has my money. That is money that Apple could have had.

So it appears to me that Apple is losing more potential sales by not offering an upgrade than getting people wanting one to purchase a new PB.

Given the economy you'd think Appple would be trying to make as many sales as they could. Oh, well.
 

strider42

macrumors 65816
Feb 1, 2002
1,460
6
Re: Monopolies...

Originally posted by Quark


In the United States of America, monopolies ARE ILLEGAL.



Quark
Read up a bit. Monopolies are perfectly legal. MS wasn't caught for being a monopoly, it was caught for abusing its status as a monopoly. And it is most definiltey a monopoly. Any company that hold 90-95% of a given market is a monopoly (and this has been confirmed by the cuorts which unequivocally said it is a monopoly that abused its power as such). You might notice however that the MS case was NOT about the operating system. it was about internet explorer, java, and things like that. It was about the abuse of monopoly power. All of our utilities have been state sponsored (yet private companies) utilities for years. This is only beginning to change at all, and the monopolies still exist in those and many other markets.

Now, a fair criticism of my post is that it was fairly irrelevent in retrospect, at least in so far as monopolies being legal or illegal. The real question is whether or not their practice was anticompetitive, which apple's iDVD is not, preciesly because there is nothing that stops anyone else from creating a competing product (and it wouldn't matter anyway, because apple is not a monopoly, so its hard for them to engage in anticompetitive practice in the first place)
 

iGod

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 16, 2002
44
0
I'm in the same boat as New Guy.
I'm not going to buy a whole new computer after 5 months JUST so I can have a superdrive and use iDVD3. So I'm going to have to spend $300-$400 on an external DVD burner from Sony AND I'm not going to be able to buy iLife. So Apple just lost $350-$450. :(
 

alset

macrumors 65816
Nov 9, 2002
1,262
0
East Bay, CA
Originally posted by springscansing


Digi can **** off. Pro tools isn't even all that great anyway IMO. *uses Cubase SX*
Pro Tools does not impress me. I stick with Logic. This isn't the point of the thread, however.

Back to iDVD - Yes! Legal!

Dan
 

alset

macrumors 65816
Nov 9, 2002
1,262
0
East Bay, CA
Originally posted by New Guy


I am in the market for a DVD burner and I would gladly throw another $300-$400 at Apple for an internal/external burner that would work with iDVD but there is no way I am purchasing another PB less than a year after I purchased my Ti 667 just to get one.

My brother got a Superdrive added to his tower last month. I didn't think things were different in other areas. Maybe the store we go to hooked us up against regs, but I doubt it.

Dan