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Kung gu

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Let's start with MacBook Pro 2021
Why do some people think more types ports are bad?

It increases functionality and decreases clutter when on the go. It's a laptop, so if am travelling It's good to have an SD Card on my laptop, so I have no need to carry the dongle.

If I am in a meeting or presenting its good to have an HDMI port on my laptop. I don't need to worry about HDMI dongles.

The MBP is laptop so when on the go, people won't have their Thunderbolt docks in their bloody bags.

Yes, I know that people have various needs but lets be real Apple will still include 3 USB-C ports for your dongle needs. It's not like they are getting rid of ALL the USB-C ports.

As to why Apple is including 3 TB/USB-4 ports and not 4 is because the bandwidth is used for the HDMI lane now.



DID you guys know the Mac Pro has 2 USB-A ports? oh the horror.
 

Kung gu

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I am guessing it is to try and keep people from looking elsewhere for a computer with portability. Many find it necessary to use what others may view as old and somewhat archaic.
Yes, that may one of the reasons.

This is Ming Chi Kuo view: "They are equipped with more types of I/O, and most users may not need to purchase additional dongles"
Source: https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/15/new-macbook-pro-models-magsafe-ports/

Most people use HDMI and SD card. After all a MacBook is used by photographers. Even Phil Schiller admitted that he carries a SD card dongle. Looks like he does not need to anymore.
 
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Apple_Robert

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In the middle of several books.
Yes, that may one of the reasons.

This is Ming Chi Kuo view: "They are equipped with more types of I/O, and most users may not need to purchase additional dongles"
Source: https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/15/new-macbook-pro-models-magsafe-ports/

Most people use HDMI and SD card. After all a MacBook is used by photographers. Even Phil Schiller admitted that he carries a SD card dongle. Looks like he does not need to anymore.
I was considering the 14" MacBook Pro but, I really don't need all the added ports as I have OWC Dock.
 

Jorbanead

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Aug 31, 2018
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Let's start with MacBook Pro 2021
Why do some people think more types ports are bad?
It's not that more ports are bad, it's that they could be taking away ports to add other ports. For example, they could be taking away 1 thunderbolt port in favor of an HDMI port. One user pointed out that HDMI 2.1 is not available on thunderbolt, but there are actually dongles that allow HDMI 2.1 over USB-C ports. Surely Apple could make their own too.

I personally would rather have 4 thunderbolt ports, than have 3 thunderbolt ports and 1 HDMI port because a thunderbolt/USB-C port has more options compared to an HDMI port. Now if Apple simply added more ports without taking any away, I would be more than happy with a dedicated HDMI port in addition to 4 thunderbolt ports.
 

cmaier

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It's not that more ports are bad, it's that they could be taking away ports to add other ports. For example, they could be taking away 1 thunderbolt port in favor of an HDMI port. One user pointed out that HDMI 2.1 is not available on thunderbolt, but there are actually dongles that allow HDMI 2.1 over USB-C ports. Surely Apple could make their own too.

I personally would rather have 4 thunderbolt ports, than have 3 thunderbolt ports and 1 HDMI port because a thunderbolt/USB-C port has more options compared to an HDMI port. Now if Apple simply added more ports without taking any away, I would be more than happy with a dedicated HDMI port in addition to 4 thunderbolt ports.
HDMI 2.1 over USB-C dongle “works” but loses 8gbps of bandwidth.

Most people never use all four of their USB-C ports at once. And when they do, they are using one of those for power, anyway, which won’t be necessary on the new machines. This change is fine.
 

airbatross

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As we saw with first gen M chips, they can't handle multiple displays over USB-C. They needed HDMI for second display with minis. My guess is that interim they will put HDMI slot for 2nd display with Macbooks, and in a couple of years when new chips can support 2 or more displays over usb-c they'll take it back. I highly doubt Apple brought back HDMI for convenience of users. SD Card is a bonus though.
 

Jorbanead

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they are using one of those for power, anyway, which won’t be necessary on the new machines. This change is fine.
If they do add MagSafe again, I agree losing one thunderbolt port is fine at that point since you’ll still have 3 ports available.

As we saw with first gen M chips, they can't handle multiple displays over USB-C. They needed HDMI for second display with minis. My guess is that interim they will put HDMI slot for 2nd display with Macbooks, and in a couple of years when new chips can support 2 or more displays over usb-c they'll take it back. I highly doubt Apple brought back HDMI for convenience of users. SD Card is a bonus though.
That’s a limitation of M1 I believe, but could certainly be changed with a new chip. M1 was simply limited to 2 total displays.
 

Abazigal

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Jul 18, 2011
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Let's start with MacBook Pro 2021
Why do some people think more types ports are bad?
It comes down to pragmatism vs vision, IMO.

When someone is frustrated because they showed up for a meeting with a MBP and then realised they left their adaptor at home, it's totally understandable. They are there to do a job and collect a salary, not cheerlead the adoption of USB-C. In this context, it would be so much more convenient if their laptop simply came with all the ports they needed. The device is a tool to get their job done, nothing more.

On my end however, I feel that there are these people who fixate on this as seeing only one aspect of the change, rather than how one change can cause many things to change as a reaction to a new normal. For example, there were those who felt the web would never work because of how slow dial-up was, but then low-cost and broadly deployed home broadband rose up to fill this demand.

It is a classic lesson in long-term gain for short-term pain. Not having the right dongle with you is an annoyance that happens to even the best of us. I have been on that receiving end myself. And so I told myself - never again. The first thing I did was buy a nifty USB Type-A/Type-C thumb drive to quickly transfer documents between my MacBook Air and any windows laptop that may still lack USB-C ports. Bonus - it works with my iPad Pro as well.

My Samsung T5 drive comes with a USB-C to USB-C cable as well. I charge my iPhone with a USB-C to lightning cable. I even have a USB-C Apple Watch charger in my bag. I have the Apple hdmi adaptor also. At my desk, I have power, data and display being piped through a single USB-C cable.

USB-C is versatile and powerful.

I am not denying that shifts are easy. On a fundamental level, I agree with you that the biggest obstacle to change are people who have jobs to do and their bosses are not going to have much empathy for said work not happening because you couldn't do it the way they wanted it to.

Change is difficult and potentially disruptive, and the better people embrace the shifts and suspend reality sooner, the better.
It increases functionality and decreases clutter when on the go. It's a laptop, so if am travelling It's good to have an SD Card on my laptop, so I have no need to carry the dongle.
Agreed. And I admit that my desire for an all USB-C laptop is as much idealist as it is pragmatist, because I see it as a means to an end - the ushering in of a new era. I suppose I am simply a sucker for controversial tradeoffs.
Yes, I know that people have various needs but lets be real Apple will still include 3 USB-C ports for your dongle needs. It's not like they are getting rid of ALL the USB-C ports.
I agree with you that having a HDMI port will likely be more convenient for many people, but that would not be the reason why I buy Apple products. To me, doing away with every other port, from MagSafe to the sd-card slot to even USB-A, spoke of a vision. I like and do respect opinionated design, even when it results in inconvenience for myself. It spoke to me, in a way that no other product could, because of their blander, safer design.
 

Kung gu

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I agree with you that having a HDMI port will likely be more convenient for many people, but that would not be the reason why I buy Apple products. To me, doing away with every other port, from MagSafe to the sd-card slot to even USB-A, spoke of a vision. I like and do respect opinionated design, even when it results in inconvenience for myself. It spoke to me, in a way that no other product could, because of their blander, safer design.
I don't think Apple's vision is ports anymore but rather Apple Sillcion. The technical advances it can bring to the computer industry is what Apple is focusing on now.

Apple views have shifted since 2016 and we can see this year with the 2021 MacBook Pro(if it does come out this year).

Now to me ports are nothing when compared to the Apple Sillicon, if Apple wants to show the future of the Mac to me that means show me what Apple Silicon can do in your PRO machines. To me that's a proper vision to have.
 
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Abazigal

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I don't think Apple's vision is ports anymore but rather Apple Sillcion. The technical advances it can bring to the computer industry is what Apple is focusing on now.

Apple views have shifted since 2016 and we can see this year with 2021 MacBook Pro(if it does come out this year).
I will admit that the 2016 MBP design is very Jony-Ive, in the sense that it focuses on design purity over all else. I am also aware of a pretty high turnover rate in Apple's industrial design team, but am not sure if this has anything to do with that.
 

MalcolmH

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Turing up to someone else’s conference room to do a presentation and they are likely to have an hdmi cable, but no dongle.
 
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cupcakes2000

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Turing up to someone else’s conference room to do a presentation and they are likely to have an hdmi cable, but no dongle.
Turning up anywhere to do any presentation with a MacBook Pro (or any machine without a dedicated hdmi port) without an adapter would be ridiculously unprofessional. It would likely be the last time you were invited to present at that venue!
 
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Jorbanead

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Turning up anywhere to do any presentation with a MacBook Pro (or any machine without a dedicated hdmi port) without an adapter would be ridiculously unprofessional. It would likely be the last time you were invited to present at that venue!
Right. If you’re someone who does presentations off of your MacBook Pro, it would be incredibly foolish of you to not have a dongle or two in your laptop bag. People are talking about educators and business people who would be crushed without an HDMI port, but last time I was in college every professor I saw had a dongle, and every meeting I’ve been in people bring their adaptors. I’m not saying I don’t want an HDMI port I just thing some of these reasonings are a bit dramatic.
 
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UBS28

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Because Apple is wrong, just like their firewire port.

5 years ago Apple said this and killed off all ports and it is still not true today.

Imagine having this “Pro” laptop but you cannot give a client presentation because you forgot your dongles at home, while any normal professional workstation laptop has a HDMI port. ?
 
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Stephen.R

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Why do some people think more types ports are bad?
Simply: because while it is more types it's almost certainly at the expense of port count of the type we do/can use.

It increases functionality
There's nothing you can do functionally with a HDMI port that you can't do with a USB-C port.

The list of things you can do with a USB-C port that you can't do with a HDMI port is basically everything you can do with any port, minus "connect a HDMI device".

Yes, I know that people have various needs but lets be real Apple will still include 3 USB-C ports for your dongle needs. It's not like they are getting rid of ALL the USB-C ports.
Funny. When the first rumours of HDMI ports returning circulated the line was "why would they remove USB-C ports, they'll just add HDMI". We've seen on the iMac that Apple isn't afraid to mix USB-C and Thunderbolt ports on a single computer.

There is zero reason to assume the three USB-C shaped cutouts seen elsewhere are all Thunderbolt 3/USB4.

DID you guys know the Mac Pro has 2 USB-A ports? oh the horror.
Yeah it also has four TB3 ports on the base model more on those with higher end GPUs, and the HDMI ports on the GPUs don't prevent use of TB3 ports. What's your point?

Most people use HDMI and SD card.
That's a very big claim, particularly about SD cards.

So, back it up, or confirm that you're just guessing, please.

HDMI 2.1 over USB-C dongle “works” but loses 8gbps of bandwidth.
Please stop repeating this. I've responded to your "misunderstanding" numerous times now (is this # 4? I'm losing count). 40Gbps is the negotiated maximum speed of Thunderbolt 3, USB4 and Thunderbolt 4. It's not an inherent speed limit of a USB Type-C port.

We know this, because DisplayPort 2.0 supports 80Gbps, over USB-C ports/cables.

If you want to continue to claim you're correct: please cite some sources showing that a USB-C connector/port/cable is inherently limited to 40Gbps.

Most people never use all four of their USB-C ports at once.
So, your argument is that Apple should cater to a minor convenience for some people who use HDMI specifically, and say "**** most people don't use all four ports at once" to the niche of high end users who do actually use all four ports?

Normally, when most people say "Apple is giving up on Pros" they don't mean it as a positive thing because they're getting a single use port back

when they do, they are using one of those for power, anyway
Wow you really do like making absolute statements without any evidence at all, don't you?

This change is fine.

It's fine to you. It's not fine to others. Or do other's opinions not matter to you?


As we saw with first gen M chips, they can't handle multiple displays over USB-C. They needed HDMI for second display with minis. My guess is that interim they will put HDMI slot for 2nd display with Macbooks, and in a couple of years when new chips can support 2 or more displays over usb-c they'll take it back. I highly doubt Apple brought back HDMI for convenience of users. SD Card is a bonus though.
No. That is not the case.

The limit on external displays on M1 Macs, is two different issues:

a) they only support two display streams total. This is the same across all M1s: the iMacs and Macbook lines have a built in and support one externally. The mini supports one HDMI and one via USB-C.

b) one of the mini's display streams is hard-wired to the HDMI port. This is not different to the Intel mini before it. The reasons for this are debatable from technological to idealogical to financial, but either way it's not related to what you claimed.


If they do add MagSafe again, I agree losing one thunderbolt port is fine at that point since you’ll still have 3 ports available.
And for those who are using four devices, with one of them providing pass-through power?


When someone is frustrated because they showed up for a meeting with a MBP and then realised they left their adaptor at home, it's totally understandable.

This is very true. I completely understand that it's annoying to leave things behind. But I also have to ask: if a person leaves a HDMI adapter behind so often, do they also leave a charger behind too? I've left all kinds of stuff behind when I did on-site support work (many years ago) only to get a parcel turn up a few days later in the internal mail from that office. Not once did I think "well **** the obvious solution here is to have <x> attached to the computer at all times so I can't forget it".

To me, doing away with every other port, from MagSafe to the sd-card slot to even USB-A, spoke of a vision.
To me it's not even about vision vs pragmatism. If they just added HDMI without stealing a dedicated display stream like it is on the mini (i.e. if the total number of displays supported could be used via USB-C ports in some manner) and without removing a TB3/USB4 port - I wouldn't care. I might think it's an odd choice, as Apple do generally have "vision" as you said, but just like having the HDMI ports on the back of GPUs on the Mac Pro: it doesn't adversely affect anyone, besides some minor inconvenience (ie. compared to if it was a DisplayPort, so you don't need to use a USB-C cable/port/adapter).

Now to me ports are nothing when compared to the Apple Sillicon
And yet you have no issues making claims about how much other people should be fine with losing universally flexible port(s).

You can have the best CPU in the world - if your computer doesn't have the ability to connect to the peripheral devices you need to use, it's just a fancy paperweight.

Apple views have shifted since 2016 and we can see this year with the 2021 MacBook Pro
Making a statement of fact based on something that hasn't actually happened yet is kind of weird.

Turing up to someone else’s conference room to do a presentation and they are likely to have an hdmi cable, but no dongle.
I bet they also don't have a computer for you, or clothes for you to wear.

I've never had to do presentations like that, so maybe there's a different mind set involved... when I did on-site support work, I carried a laptop around with me, even if some days I never needed to actually use it.

I had a bag with at least three ethernet cables in it (~25cm, 1m and about 10m, because who knows where a free network point would be), a mouse, a power brick, some flash drives... It's called being prepared for the job you need to do.


If my SIL asks me to go install a shelf in her house, I don't turn up and say "well where's your cordless hammer drill and masonry bits?"

Turning up anywhere to do any presentation with a MacBook Pro (or any machine without a dedicated hdmi port) without an adapter would be ridiculously unprofessional. It would likely be the last time you were invited to present at that venue!
Given how long-lived projectors tend to be, and how many video connector types there are, I'd suggest that turning up to a presentation without a literal bag of adapters, or a multi-port adapter would be ridiculously unprofessional.


I feel that there are these people who fixate on this
It's almost like they're not interested in a solution, and just want to whine about it.
 

Kung gu

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You can have the best CPU in the world - if your computer doesn't have the ability to connect to the peripheral devices you need to use, it's just a fancy paperweight.
Exactly the Intel MBP 4 USB-C 16" can't even be used to connect a SD card, HDMI, ethernet, USB-A or DisplayPort and a dongle is needed to do so. So the current 16" is a paperweight according to you.
That's a very big claim, particularly about SD cards.
If HDMI is not the most used interface for connecting laptops to external monitors, then why is Apple bringing it back?

Surely if USB-C is used every where then Apple would have no need in bringing back HDMI or SD card.
 
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zakarhino

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Sep 13, 2014
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Going from 4 USB-C ports to 3 was a bad decision, any "pro" laptop should have 4 thunderbolt ports minimum. When I'm using my MacBook Pro at home I have at least 3 thunderbolt ports taken up by devices including a dock that has more USB stuff attached to it (mouse dongle, etc.). If anything Apple should have went with 6 USB C ports (or 4 USB-C and 2 USB-A), a HDMI port, an SD card slot, and MagSafe. That would truly be a "pro" laptop with out of the box I/O capacity you would expect from a desktop machine.
 

Kung gu

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There is zero reason to assume the three USB-C shaped cutouts seen elsewhere are all Thunderbolt 3/USB4.
There will be 3 USB-C ports are Thunderbolt/USB-4 as Mark Gurman said the next gen MacBook Pros will have more USB4/thunderbolt Ports than M1 MacBook Pro, which currently has 2.
 

Kung gu

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Going from 4 USB-C ports to 3 was a bad decision, any "pro" laptop should have 4 thunderbolt ports minimum. When I'm using my MacBook Pro at home I have at least 3 thunderbolt ports taken up by devices including a dock that has more USB stuff attached to it (mouse dongle, etc.). If anything Apple should have went with 6 USB C ports (or 4 USB-C and 2 USB-A), a HDMI port, an SD card slot, and MagSafe. That would truly be a "pro" laptop with out of the box I/O capacity you would expect from a desktop machine.
For me a pro laptop should have HDMI and SD card.

magSafe is coming back so you would still have 3 USB-C ports remaining.
 
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Stephen.R

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Intel MBP 4 USB-C 16" can't even be used
a dongle is needed to do so

So by definition, it has the ability to do so.


If you have a HDMI port, and want to connect a DVI display, it's possible. The port has the ability to be used for that.

If you have a DisplayPort.. port and want to connect an ethernet cable, it's not possible. The port does not have the ability to be used for that.
 

Kung gu

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So by definition, it has the ability to do so.


If you have a HDMI port, and want to connect a DVI display, it's possible. The port has the ability to be used for that.

If you have a DisplayPort.. port and want to connect an ethernet cable, it's not possible. The port does not have the ability to be used for that.
Apple is bringing back HDMI not DisplayPort and HDMI can carry ethernet.
 
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zakarhino

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Most people never use all four of their USB-C ports at once. And when they do, they are using one of those for power, anyway, which won’t be necessary on the new machines. This change is fine.

I often need/want more than 4 USB ports on my laptop. Even if charging was done via MagSafe I would still want 4 ports minimum. Your comment is right but not in the way you think: most people don't need all 4 at once because most people are not pros. Apple dumbed down their own "Pro" laptops to cater to a wider audience of laymen because someone thought the MBP would make more money as a statement piece than as a pro device. Apple shouldn't be centering their design choices for "pro" devices based off of what the average consumer wants, they need to be thinking about the minority of pros and creators that would be empowered with more USB ports and power, not less.

If they had kept all 4 thunderbolt ports exactly the same but added MagSafe, HDMI, and the SD slot as a bonus, that would be awesome and powerful. By taking away some slots and potentially nerfing existing functionality (and one can only imagine they might remove charging ability over thunderbolt for some reason) they're making the device less capable.
 
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