If the next MBP doesnt have i5, Blu Ray & ATI say goodbye to highend consumers Apple!

wikoogle

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 12, 2009
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Here's a comparison of an upconverted dvd on a 7 inch netbook laptop sized screen, versus a blu ray on a 7 inch netbook laptop sized screen.





Source: http://forum.blu-ray.com/617171-post5.html

Apple recently claimed their next update will take the Macs to the next level.

What is your dream update that would bring the MBPs to the next level? For me, it would be Apple releasing their premium $2000 laptops with the cutting edge hardware that even $800 Windows laptops are offering.

This includes...

The Intel i5/i7 Processor

A Significantly Higher Resolution Screen (I would like to see the higher end 15" MBPs with both a Blu Ray Drive and 1920×1200 Resolution, Even if OSX has to be upgraded to render bigger text and icons at that resolution)

The ATI 5830 or 5850 GPU (Or any current gen (DirectX 11) mobile GPU with either GDDR5 Memory or a 256-bit Memory Bus. If this isn't feasible, an ATI 5830 at Minimum. All the Nvidia GPUs are two generations behind. The ATI 58XX series are the only half way decent laptop GPUs on the market.)

Updated Display Port With Audio Output Support and/or HDMI port

The improved battery tech Apple recently developed (Already used in the 17 inch MBP?)

An improved HD resolution iSight Video Camera with Bigger Better Light Sensors

An Optional Matte Screen for those who want it

An Optional multitouch possibly detachable or flip screen

A HDTV Tuner & PVR Functionality so everywhere you take your Macbook, you would also have a HDTV that picks up HD signals off the air.

Oleophobic coating on the screen or maybe even the whole laptop

A Premium Carbon Fiber Unibody Case Option (Significantly Lighter, and if used as it is in sports equipment, damn near indestructable.)

Either 120GB SSD Drives or the recent 750GB 7200 RPM Laptop HDDs

USB 3.0 & If Possible with Light Peak

But here is the upgrade that would be a dream come true and be a knock out killing blow to all other competing laptops...
I posted earlier about apple putting a small ssd into the next mbp's in addition to a normal hdd. I don't mean a literal 1.8" or 2.5" ssd. I just looked up how much an 8 GB NAND memory IC costs. Bought in a reel of 1000, it costs a grand total of $10. Integrated into the spot where the old north bridge used to be, apple could not only have switchable graphics but also hybrid drives on each of its systems. By shutting down the harddrive and using the flash module for most activities could result in vastly faster performance and longer battery life. Put the OS on there and you could be enjoying what, 10 hours of battery life and (instantanous) boot times. I could wait another month for that.

Here's the link for the NAND IC I mentioned:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=557-1372-2-ND
Blu Ray


People don't want to buy and pay for the same movie twice. Tons of us have HDTV setups with 5.1 or 7.1 sound, blu ray players and blu ray movies to boot (Why wouldn't we, that whole setup costs less than a MBP)

And we don't want to have rebuy those exact same movies that we already own on blu ray, on iTunes in inferior quality (heavily compressed, 720p, stereo sound only and lossy audio), just to be able to watch those movies when we're out of the house or traveling/flying.

Yes Blu Ray is mainstream now esp among the type of high end consumers that buy $2000+ Apple computers. They offer fantastic backup options for video editors and othe professionals who have to store huge amounts of data. No one aside from Steve Jobs has the Gigabit Internet speeds needed to be able to stream or download in under four hours a 1080p resolution video from iTunes. There's 80 Million Players in the market already and every single year Blu Ray sales are increasing by 100% and now already stand at 10% of all video sales.

And by every indication, metered billing aka. internet caps are already implemented by several isps and is right on the horizon for the rest. The only reason that they haven't already become standard is because the average user still only uses a tiny bit of internet bandwidth. If more people start trying to download 25gb 1080p movies over the internet (legally or illegally), you can bet that ISPs will adopt metered billing and internet caps faster than you realize your internet bill is suddenly upwards of a $100.

so after using my parents macbook pro and my hp envy i got it price matched at 1799 canadian and the pro was 2199(2.66) here are the specs of the envy
Intel Core i7-720QM 1.6
6gb ddr3 ram
500gb 7200rpm
ati 5830
15 cells of battery 6 cell plus 9 cell slice
build quality is excellent on par with the mac, mine doesnt feel cheap at all but id still give the edge to apple because its the original
screen WOW, the envy at 1080p destroys the macbook pro, at its lowest brightness its equivelent to the pro at 3-4 notches, best laptop screen ive ever used and i really hope apple goes 16:9 the form factor is so much sleeker
performance well in everything the hp feels much faster, the i7 is an amazing processor
heating- some review units have been getting hot, note that this were rev 1, mines a rev 2 and it has no cooling issues, it does get mildly hot tho but hp has done a good job on cooling
keyboard- its great no backlight but they both feel identical no flex at all.
battery. heres where the pro shines but this is due to the i7 and the gpu, on the 6 cell i get 3 hours and with 15 cells i get around 6 hours, the pro gets 7 hours, here brightness is at half and office with web browsing.
Speakers- hp destroys although not as loud as the pro the sound is so much richer and has less distortion
Im glad i went with the envy, its the best laptop ive ever had and i strongly reccomend it those willing to use windows 7. Also i find it rather odd that my laptop has better specs than the 27 inch imac :)
Going back to Blu Ray, high end consumers are the lifeblood of Apple's profits. The average person buys the $1100 MBP if they want a laptop. It's the high end consumers that buy the $3000 MBP with everything maxed out. So it's those high end consumers that account for Apple's highest profit margins. And it's precisely those same consumers that are likely to have blu ray movies and want to be able to watch them on their laptops.

I'm such a consumer. I have a number of blu rays that I want to watch on the go. I'll be buying a $2000+ high end laptop this year and I won't even be considering a MBP if they don't feature the blu ray drive in the next update. I'm just waiting to see what the next update has in store but I'll likely be picking up the Sony Vaio Z if Apple fails to deliver.



Sony Vaio Z
Design: Aluminium + Carbon Fiber Unibody
Weight: 3.07lbs
Screen: 13.1", 1920 x 1080 Resolution
CPU: Core i7-620M. 3.33GHz Turbo. 35W TDP. 4MB L2 Cache
RAM: 8GB DDR3
SDD: 512GB Solid State Harddrive (Configurable With Up to Four Solid State Raid 0 Drives)
Graphics: Nvidia 330M GT 1GB GDDR3 and Intel HD integrated - switchable
Battery: Sony: 6 Hours (8-10 hrs when used in the Stamina Mode)
Optical Drive: Blu-Ray Burner/DVD Burner
Other: x3 USB2.0, x1 HDMI Out, VGA Out, 802.11 a/b/g/n, GB Ethernet, 2.1 Bluetooth, webcam, mic, SD, Expresscard, Memstick
Other: x3 USB2.0, x1 HDMI Out, VGA Out, 802.11 a/b/g/n, GB Ethernet, 2.1 Bluetooth, webcam, mic, SD, Expresscard, Memstick

The fact is, if Apple wants to sell high profit margins. If apple to attract the kinds of people that don't mind dropping $3000 on a laptop to get the specs maxed out. Then Apple needs to play ball and give those same high end consumers the features they desire. And yes, I guarentee that almost everyone of these high end consumers has a HDTV or two, atleast one blu ray player, and several blu ray movies that they want to be able watch on their laptop in 1080p when away from home.

Best Buy had been selling a Gateway with an i5 Processor, a high resolution screen, a dedicated graphics card and a Blu Ray Drive with a DVD Burner for $480 as the retail price starting at the third week of January!

I think the longer Apple goes without catching up to the technology offered in sub $500 laptops, the more bad press they're going to get from tech saavy consumers. Just think about it, I don't care if it is an Apple product, a $2500 product being outperformed by a sub $500 product is outragous.

Blu Ray Drives are dead cheap, they're now in the sub $50 price range for manufacturers buying in bulk. Blu Ray Movies are also dead cheap. Sony introducted a new pricing structure to lower the price of blu ray discs. Gohastings.com has been regularly selling brand new blu ray releases in mint condition for sub $12-15 prices. Netflix offers a blu ray version of all new releases these days. HDTVs are everywhere. And more and more consumers will be picking up Blu Rays as these lower prices propagate.

It's adamantly clear that the overwhelming majority of the people here WANT blu ray in their MBP, that they expect such a basic feature in a $2000+ machine, and that they don't like the lenghty periods of time and the huge chunk off of their bandwidth cap downloading a HD movie takes, and don't like being forced to repurchase blu ray movies they already own, all over again.

Rata911 summed it up well...
It'd surely be nice to have a Blu-Ray player as most new off-the-shelf laptops at Best Buy like shops have one as well.

I'd consider myself an Apple fanboy, yes I am. Unfortunately, my expectations have gone down the drain during the last 1-2 years. This will sound absolutely über-epic and cheesy like in a Braveheart movie or something, but you know what I want? If I pay $2000 (credit card is ready) for a laptop that the manufacturer considers PRO then ffs give me a PRO machine that's as superior in specs as the price tag is. Like in the old days, when a Powerbook was THE machine. I want a laptop that's just brutal, knowing the engineers have done everything in their power to justify the price tag. Knowing that other laptops will switch sidewalks because of discomfort and fear whenever they see a MBP approaching.

Apple's move to switch to x86 was very very nice. But right now (imho) the only remaining ace up their sleeve is OSX, not the hardware. Considering that Windows7 -heck, even Ubuntu- do a great (!) job and in my environment it doesn't really matter what OS you're using (writing my M.Sc. thesis in computer science) I'm playing with the thought to leave the Apple ship entirely. Maybe they should focus on their pro users (maybe even "older" users) more just like they do on their iPhone/iPad community.

Unless the new MBP line that I'm eagerly awaiting is one of those BRUTAL machines mentioned above - I bid farewell. I'm not willing to pay for a laptop the price of three just to get inferior specs. OSX alone doesn't justify that.
Now here's a premium laptop that is actually worth the premium price. Because it actually innovates, something Apple it seems has forgotten how to do..

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http://chinese.engadget.com/2010/03/04/vaio-z-explained-by-project-leader/&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&swap=1
 

moel

macrumors 6502
Nov 7, 2007
452
0
Blu Ray (Yes Blu Ray is mainstream now. They offer fantastic backup options for video editors and scientists who have to store huge amounts of data. There's 80 Million Players in the market already and every single year Blu Ray sales are increasing by 100% and now already stand at 10% of all video sales.)
Really???

Because i'm in the video industry..and i'll be honest the hassle of splitting and storing video projects in 50gb chunks is a massive grind in comparison to whacking everything on my drobo with 3tb's of space

Fact is blu-ray is dead..sorry...sales even now still don't surpass bog standard DVD's. As for putting the drives in laptops, completely and utterly pointless. 1080p quality....on a 15" screen.........it is a bit like those indian fakirs who make sculptures out of grains of rice.
 

wikoogle

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 12, 2009
929
0
Are you serious? Given how close people sit to laptops , the Higher image quality offered by 1080p is completely noticable and makes a huge difference. There's absolutely no way you would say what you did if you ever actually watched HD content on a laptop. It looks incredible.

And Im sorry but if you think Blu Ray is dead, you have no clue what you're talking about. Blu Rays sales are DOUBLE what DVD sales were at this same point in the DVD life cycle. There's 80 MILLION Blu Ray players. Anyone who works in retail knows that Blu Rays are selling like crazy.

The fact is Digital Distribution of HD content isn't happening because ISP simply aren't offering fast enough Internet speeds and have no plans to in the future. They're actually going backwards and putting bandwidth caps these days.
 

moel

macrumors 6502
Nov 7, 2007
452
0
Yawn...call me when someone actually cares

Price point on the discs is still far far far too high (both buying movies on them and buying burnable ones for storage)

Price point on the actual drives for computers is still too high

Software is still crap

Streamingwise currently I agree with you...but downloadingwise, it's really not that bad.

Here in the UK other than idiots that went out and bought a PS3 I know of no one that has a standalone blu-ray player.

Anyway just to confirm blu-ray is NOT MAINSTREAM you've even proved as much there by saying there are 80 million blu-ray players out there...

last time i checked (about 30 seconds ago) the world population sits at 6,799,900,000. So 1.1% makes something mainstream does it?
 

twl130

macrumors newbie
my dream 13" uMBP...

I'd like to see a 13" uMBP with these specs as the step-up model:

Intel Core i5
ATI Mobility M5800 series discrete graphics
Display Port WITH audio support
higher resolution screen... say, 1440x900
matte screen option!

And though I know this is a pipe-dream...

NO OPTICAL DRIVE WHATSOEVER... perhaps another HDD option or a double battery pack?!
 

twl130

macrumors newbie
Regardless of whether Blu Ray is dead or not, it's not gonna happen on the next MBPs anyway.
Agreed. Apple has been on the consortium board for a while now. If they haven't adopted the standard by now they never will.

Besides, even if they did, I bet half of those wishing for Blu-ray want to be able to output it to a large monitor or HDTV... but through what port? Apple is shunning HDMI by supporting Display Port, though they still refuse to adopt the audio and USB standards built into it.
 

wikoogle

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 12, 2009
929
0
Moel, so you're in the UK. That explains a lot. In the US, Blu Ray has putting up crazy high numbers in retail sales. Anyone in retail can confirm this.

We don't know that Apple won't include it. I actually haven't heard any confirmation that Steve Jobs said what he is rumored to have said and even if he did, we don't know what he meant by that.

Practically speaking it's very realistic. Like you said Apple is on the consortium board. Blu Ray only dropped to under $70 a month or two ago. I imagine Apple wasn't into Blu Ray back when the drives were expensive but now that they're so cheap, they have no good reason for not adopting the standard.

This whole week, Best Buy is selling a $480 widescreen laptop featuring both an intel i5 processor and a Blu Ray drive with a DVD burner. Keep in mind this $480 is the retail price which means the components are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper.

Given how cheap these parts are and how prevalent Blu Ray is becoming, the odds of the not showing up in Macs this year seems low.
 

moel

macrumors 6502
Nov 7, 2007
452
0
Practically speaking it's very realistic. This whole week, Best Buy is selling a $480 widescreen laptop featuring both an intel i5 processor and a blu Ray drive with a DVD burner.
No hardware wise it's realistic, software wise it isn't. For it to run on OS X would require a pretty serious investment in software programming, for something that hasn't really taken off inside a PC and which has another few years in it at best.
 

twl130

macrumors newbie
Given how cheap these parts are and how prevalent Blu Ray is becoming, the odds of the not showing up in Macs this year seems low.
I think your argument is sound, but Apple is pushing everything towards direct, digital distribution. Don't get me wrong, I think they are jumping the gun a little. I like Blu-ray, and have three players and almost 50 discs. And I agree with those who believe Blu-ray will be the last hard media, but still, I think Apple is trying to skip the entire standard.
 

Alvi

macrumors 65816
Oct 31, 2008
1,202
307
Mars
I prefer no Blu-Ray than a price increase, also, I don't really need it most of the time I need to store 2mb - 3GB stuff on a CD / DVD / My 32GB USB Stick and when I need to store some +20GB Content I just use HDD, no need to store them on a disc which I guess it would be slower than a HDD
 

moel

macrumors 6502
Nov 7, 2007
452
0
Alvi, blu-rays data transfer rate is slower than normal DVD's (by about half) let alone HD's!!!
 

wikoogle

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 12, 2009
929
0
Moel, stop talking out of of your ass. Current blu ray drives have a data transfer rate of 485 Mbits/sec. HD broadcasts are limited to 19.3 Mbits/sec.

At this point Digital Distribution of HD content is a lost cause. Many ISPs have been setting bandwidth caps for each month and the few that aren't are planning to. Even those that aren't capping bandwidth are offering 5-10 MBS at best. And that's peak performance, actual ISP speed is usally closer to 2-3. That is no where near fast enough to make Digital Downloads of HD content a realistic option.

The average consumer isn't going to wait around 6-8 hrs to watch a movie. Once they and their date decide on what movie they want to watch, they're going to want to start watching it asap.

Blu Ray may well be the last consumer media but only because 1080p is close to the optimal resolution. But it won't be going anywhere for a decade atleast.

And anyone that thinks otherwise is out of touch with the data, sales figures and penetration rates. The high-end avid consumers of media have already embraced Blu Ray just as they did HDTVs a few years ago, and they account for a big chunk of retail sales of media. This is why the revenue earned by blu rays (1.5 billion) outperformed all digital video distribution revenue (300 million) 5 to 1 this past year.

They're resorting to making idiotic claims like 80 million in just a few years is a figure you can scoff at when that figure completely trounces DVD penetration rates a few years in. HDTVs are exploding in sales and with each such TV sold, the pathetic 480i resolution that DVDs offer is becoming obsolete.
 

moel

macrumors 6502
Nov 7, 2007
452
0
Well to be honest it is a figure to be scoffed at!

Mark my words blu-ray hardware sales will level off this year. The people that want it have got it, and for the rest of the populace it's still VERY MUCH a meh it looks nice, but is it really worth the extra £18 ($30) on top of a standard DVD? Then they see they have to spend a further £150+ for a player, and it becomes a definite no no.

It is the last hard media. It's one that as i've pointed out, is fairly useless when it comes to a storage medium, due to it's cripplingly slow read/write transfer rates, and expense

You can think i've got my head in the clouds if you want. But as I said I know very few people that actively buy blu-ray stuff.

It might make it into a MBP, but I doubt it. For transfer of files most people use USB sticks and portable HD's. Burning discs is really only for media distribution these days.
 

wikoogle

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 12, 2009
929
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Well to be honest it is a figure to be scoffed at!

Mark my words blu-ray hardware sales will level off this year. The people that want it have got it
It's as pointless arguing with you as it was arguing with those who insisted a few years ago that HDTVs will never take off because the only people that want them already bought them and the avg person doesn't care about higher resolution. It's clear that facts aren't going to change your mind.
 

djkny

macrumors 6502
Sep 30, 2003
461
0
I'd like to see a 13" uMBP with these specs as the step-up model:

Intel Core i5
ATI Mobility M5800 series discrete graphics
Display Port WITH audio support
higher resolution screen... say, 1440x900
matte screen option!

And though I know this is a pipe-dream...

NO OPTICAL DRIVE WHATSOEVER... perhaps another HDD option or a double battery pack?!
Yes, MATTE SCREEN! Absolutely NO reason why Apple can't provide this option. If they don't, by this next go-around, shame on you leader.
 

wikoogle

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 12, 2009
929
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I wasn't sure what's the big need for matte so I googled it.

"Matte screens don't get glare or reflections on them; however, the same rough surface (polarizer) that reduces the intensity of reflected light results in less contrast and brightness since the light from the LCD screen passes through it. Matte screens might be harder to read outside, especially in the sunlight; most laptops come with glossy screens nowadays."

IMO, I don't really notice much glare on my iPhone or laptop, so I don't think the trade off will be worth it for me. But I do hope it's an option for you guys.
 

twl130

macrumors newbie
I wasn't sure what's the big need for matte
Matte screens had a definite disadvantage to glossy back in the TFT days, but now we have LED backlights! Plus, LG (who I think makes the matte screens for the 15" and 17" uMBPs) has a bunch of patents on special screen coatings.

All in all, I've seen the current matte screens and they look great while not hurting my eyes in low-light situations (which is why I desperately need to keep the backlit keyboard).
 

reallynotnick

macrumors 6502a
Oct 21, 2005
860
268
The Intel i5/i7 Processor - Yes
Higher Resolution Screen - Maybe
The ATI 5830 GPU - We can just hope but Apple might pick the 5650 for better battery life
HDMI - There really is no more room on the left side for another port
The improved battery tech already used in the 17 inch MBP - What tech is this? Being bigger?
An improved higher resolution iSight Camera - The iSight is already 1.3MP you just can't take advantage of it
A HDTV Tuner & PVR Functionality - Never, especially in a laptop
Olegophobic coating on the screen or the whole laptop - interesting
Either 120GB SSD Drives or the recent 750GB 7200 RPM Laptop HDDs - 750-1TB 2.5in HDDs are 12.5mm, too thick
USB 3.0 - Apple will probably wait for Light Peak
Blu Ray - Would be nice but I think I rather see the drive removed all together to open up the right side to be used for more ports and have more internal space for bigger batteries and more powerful chips, but we both know Apple will keep the "Super Drive" next update.



Just off the top of my head I would really like to see a combo USB/eSATA port.
 

kasakka

macrumors 68020
Oct 25, 2008
2,064
735
Besides, even if they did, I bet half of those wishing for Blu-ray want to be able to output it to a large monitor or HDTV... but through what port? Apple is shunning HDMI by supporting Display Port, though they still refuse to adopt the audio and USB standards built into it.
The video part is easy, just get a mini-DP -> HDMI adapter. Hopefully Apple will have support for audio via Displayport in the next MBPs, though if you have a hifi amp it most likely also has an optical input so it's not that big a problem currently in a home theater. HDMI as the only would just be more convenient but I'm glad Apple wen't with Displayport because it can support 2560x1600 displays. HDMI could do this as well but most displays with HDMI only support up to 1920x1200 even if they have a higher native res.

I would love to see SSD drives as standard on MBPs, but we most likely won't see this until 2011 or 2012.

Overall I feel that the MBP hardware and design is fine as it is but we could use some more effort on the software side. Quicktime X is still very feature-deprived, the mouse acceleration still sucks balls, Apple should support a bigger set of multitouch gestures straight from the box (at least middleclick on the Magic Mouse), Finder could be better and the same goes for multiple display and window management. Thankfully lots of 3rd party effort helps with some of these things but it'd be nice to have them fully integrate into the OS. Oh and BluRay support should be available at least in the software for those who want it. Then they can go get a BluRay drive if needed. I don't know why anyone would do that since the PS3 is still one of the best BluRay players on the market.
 

twl130

macrumors newbie
The video part is easy, just get a mini-DP -> HDMI adapter
I've had enough Apple adapter nightmares to last me a lifetime already.

I would love to see SSD drives as standard on MBPs
I'm not sold on SSD yet. Great idea and such, but of course they are still too expensive and the limited number of writes is still too low to drive me away from the power-hungry spinning HDDs.
 

cathyy

macrumors 6502a
Apr 12, 2008
727
1
- Quad Core i7 mobile processor
- ATI Mobility 5830
- USB 3.0 (preferably 3 ports)
- 1680x1050 or 1920x1280 resolution
- Option to swap out DVD Drive
- Option for SSD drive

But IMO, these upgrades don't really bring it to any new level. This is simply a list of possible, yet unlikely options. Even if the MBP had these options, the HP Envy already beat the MBP to this level in terms of hardware.

If I could have my dream parts inside this notebook, it would be the following:
- Full HD
- Quad Core i7 Extreme
- ATI 5870
 

Koifim

macrumors newbie
May 20, 2009
11
0
The Netherlands
The future MacBook Pro

They should ditch the optical disc drive and make the battery larger. The SD port on the current MacBook Pros will replace them. They will deliver the Software on a SD card. What would you do if you had the choice between a large disc or a really small SD card, I would certainly choose the SD card.

By ditching the disc drive they can claim a battery time of about 14 hours, that would be an amazing selling point, wouldn't it? Imagine the impact on the laptop market!
It's also possible for them to offer customers an option to put two HDDs in the MacBook.

I'm guessing that the resolution is going up too. The 9.7 inch iPad almost has the same resolution as the MacBook Pro.

Also Apple introduced pre-paid 3G on the iPad. I think this is also coming to the MacBook as an option.

This would however not take the MacBook to the next level. Apple will have to come with more than this I think. A feature we're not thinking of yet.

My two cents...