If there was no OS X, would you be an Apple user?

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by Apple][Forever, Feb 18, 2003.

  1. Apple][Forever macrumors regular

    Jul 3, 2002
    Here's something I was wondering.

    First, let me give you a little history. After the Commodore VIC-20 I had, my first 'real' computer was an Apple IIGS. I used it for years, until 1992. After a few angry mails to Cupertino, and a few responses with some token free books and stuff, it was clear that the II was dead. So, I switched to a PC running Windows 3.1. Life continues, and I learn all about CONFIG.SYS, AUTOEXEC.BAT, the Registry, and other wonderful, wonderful pieces of technology.

    Fast forward to 1999, after I've owned a few home-built Intel and AMD boxes...

    I'm done with college, at a job where we're setting up a video department. I'm in charge of figuring out what the hell to buy. Looking at available options, I decide the new Mac B&Ws are the best choice, and I get a new Mac on the desk. (Remember, this was the dot-com era.) At once, with the Canon XL1 we purchased and my new Mac, I am tearing out broadcast video like a banshee. (Damn, those were the good old days. We weren't even at a Blue alert level back then.)

    Upon quitting, I take it upon myself to purchase a Mac for the home... the first Apple equipment I had purchased since '87. It's a B&W Server, bought new on auction immediately after the Yikes G4s came out. I'm actually using it right now. Granted, it has 640MB more RAM, a new 80GB HDD, a DVD burner, a 600MHz G4 upgrade ZIF, and some other stuff in it. But it still looks like a freakin' Smurf.

    I used it in conjunction with my PC (Mac: Photoshop, Flash, Illustrator; PC: general Office/Internet stuff) until my PC died. Thinking I'd give OS X another try (I had 10.0 for a bit but didn't use it because it sucked), I installed a friend's copy of OS X 10.1.

    I haven't had a PC since. Now I'm at 10.2 (YES, I BOUGHT IT) and loving it. While I'm writing this, I'm SSH-ing to another machine to run Folding, and encoding MPEG-2 from Final Cut, and the machine is rock-solid. I can't go back to Windows. I won't.

    But, once in a while (for audio), I boot into OS 9. And, I HATE IT. It's like I stepped back 10 years in the history of computing. I'd rather use Windows XP. In fact, if there wasn't an OS X 10.1 or 10.2 I would have sold my Mac years ago, as near and dear as it is (I have bought an iBook since as well).

    So, assuming you've read through all this--had Apple stuck with OS 9 going into '03, would you switch to the DARK SIDE? There's advantages and disadvantages, but for me, the cheaper hardware, wider selection of drivers and software, and protected memory structure of WinXP outweigh the ease of use of OS 9.

    What do you think?
  2. Macette macrumors 6502

    Mar 5, 2002
    I wouldn't have gone dark side. I loved OS 9 (but was very excited about OS X, and switched over almost immediately despite some performance flaws in the early versions).

    Do you know what my greatest fear is? That I'll build my whole life on Macs and then Apple will go bankrupt and I'll never be able to use them agian. That would be too much to bear.
  3. Mr. MacPhisto macrumors 6502

    Jan 16, 2003
    I would never have switched without OS X. There's no doubt at all about it. I don't like OS9 at all, but think OS X is just so wonderful. I know many people who are currently thinking about switching - not because of the ad campaign, but because of X.
  4. janey macrumors 603


    Dec 20, 2002
    sunny los angeles
    yeah i would because it would still be better than Windows.
  5. Flowbee macrumors 68030


    Dec 27, 2002
    Alameda, CA
    If there was no OS X, I would not be a Mac user (I'd still have an iPod, though). I've always liked Apple hardware, but the old OS never seemed to have any advantages over Windows. But as soon as I saw OS X in action, I was hooked. I originally intended to be an "adder" rather than a "switcher," but ever since getting my "new" Cube, my PIII has just been gathering dust in the corner.
  6. rideahyperLite macrumors member

    Jan 12, 2003
  7. rideahyperLite macrumors member

    Jan 12, 2003
  8. zimv20 macrumors 601


    Jul 18, 2002
    considering every mac i've owned since 1986 is still fully functional, i don't think you need to worry about not using them if apple went under.

    still, it would suck.

    would i still use macs w/o osx? i used 'em for 16 years like that, so i guess so.
  9. AtariMan macrumors newbie

    Feb 2, 2003
    Fairfield, Melbourne, Australia
    without osX i would never have thought about switching back.

    A mac classic was my first computer and i used macs until 1997. From then on it was cheaper hardware and windows, which was almost as stable if set up properly.

    Once win2K came out i didn't think i would ever switch back. It was faster and more stable than any mac OS at the time.

    When 10.0 came out i used it on a friends mac, i thought "nice, but too slow and colorful". By the time Jaguar came out i was hooked, i convinced my dad to buy an iBook and i've loved every minute that i've had the opportunity to use it.

    Now a few of the places i do freelance video editing for are running 10.2 and its great.

    My home PC's getting a bit old and i'm about to order a new G4. Sure its not as fast as a new PC, but it runs osX. Before osx i would never have wanted a new mac, the only things going for them were....... um........ they had a cool case........ and the iApps were good.......the resale value was higher and, ah, os9 forced you to concentrate on only one App at a time, cause running too many would crash it.

    So yeah OSX is the reson i'm switching back
  10. reflex macrumors 6502a

    May 19, 2002
    I wouldn't have bought a mac without OS X. I don't know why it attracted me exactly, but I think it was mostly because I miss BeOS (note: OS X is much better than BeOS in a lot of ways, of course, more mature for one thing).
  11. john123 macrumors 68020


    Jul 20, 2001
    I'll offer the opposite viewpoint.

    I've owned the Power Mac 6100, two G3 desktops, a Pismo, and 3 PowerBook G4s. If OS X doesn't improve in GUI performance and allow me to manipulate it more (e.g., turning off anti-aliased fonts, and no, TinkerTool doesn't do a good job in this regard), it'll probably be my last Mac.
  12. yosoyjay macrumors regular

    Nov 20, 2002
    Without OS X I wouldn't have touched a Mac with a 10 ft. pole.

    Luckily, the Jaguar update prevented me from throwing my iBook out the window because I was so frustrated with the s l o w n e s s of the first iterations.

    I tried OS 9 and nearly regurgitated. I'd rather use Windows 98 or NetBSD.
  13. mac15 macrumors 68040

    Dec 29, 2001
    I used OS9 for ages, so yeah I'd still be on a mac
  14. f-matic macrumors member

    Jan 6, 2003
    some os 9 thoughts

    i kind of agree with john123... kinda. see, os 9 is pretty sweet when it comes to music - for the last few years it's been the only real system you could use to use for 'experimental' music, with max/msp and supercollider both being os 9 only (granted you have pd, audiomulch, etc. etc. for other platforms, but i'd argue max and supercollider were/are the best featured). on top of that, os 9 is supereasy to customize for audio work, and it's a very light operating system - meaning for live laptop use it's responsive and fast, two key issues for a decent musical interface.

    application-wise, os x isn't quite there yet, though it soon will be, with max/msp for os x coming soon and other pretty exciting unix-flavored musical programs too (supercollider 3 with client/server command line interface - pretty sweet!). but i'm not totally sold on os x as a musical interface. os x is still too slow for the kind of quick responsive interaction you need for live music creation IMHO. i'm sure this isn't a problem if you have a new g4 12/15/17 whatever but who has the money for that? especially when os 9 is a speed demon on just about any g3 you can throw at it...

    just my $0.02,

  15. goglamosh macrumors member

    Jul 7, 2002
    OS X is 99% of the reason i bought an iMac. But now I see more advantages to having a Mac. Like software-hardware integration, and higher quality components. In the past I would build my own computers but I grew tired of the weirdness and instability of that other OS from Redmond.
  16. Gus macrumors 65816


    Jan 1, 2002
    Yeah, I'd still be using a Mac if there was just OS 9, (since I've been using them since System 6 anyway), but instead of happily typing away at this post, I'd probably be rebuiding my desktop, or trying to find which freakin' extension was causing that constant lock-up. Nah, I don't miss 9 at all, and I jumped into X from the very beginning. I've been waiting for X since they promised me Copland/Rhapsody back in '96/'97.

  17. Chimaera macrumors regular

    Nov 15, 2002
    There is no chance. The main reason I bought an old iMac was to play with OSX (although I must admit the price was also good, but thats another story). My job involves supporting and maintaining a number of systems from OS6 on up to Jaguar, and I *hate* the previous OS's, although they improve throughout to OS9. On my work machine (running jag, natch) I just finished removing Classic mode from the system, the one thing I used it for finally being available in a carbon version.

    I won't miss the precursors to OSX at all when we upgrade the entire network to OSX over the summer :)
  18. john123 macrumors 68020


    Jul 20, 2001
    Well I guess from a marketing standpoint, OS X is good.

    I don't think I'm alone in demanding speed speed and more speed, though. See, lots of people complain about crashes with OS 9, but that doesn't happen very much to me. Sure it happens occasionally, and I have to restart...but I almost never lose any work. And the time I lose in restarting is far, far less than the time I lose waiting for OS X to do something with its GUI. Yes, OS X is far superior in true multitasking, but the reality of the matter is that most of us don't do true multitasking. I see all kinds of people "testing out the new Macs" in Apple stores by playing a DVD and letting iTunes go and running some other process in the background.

    If I'm gonna listen to music, I'm gonna listen to music. If I'm gonna watch a movie, I'm gonna watch a movie. And if I'm gonna work, I'm gonna work. I might even combine work with music if I'm in a particularly daredevil mood, but I swear, if you were my college roommate and you sat down at your desk and starting playing songs in iTunes while watching the Matrix or something...well, something bad would happen. :)

    Most of us use our Macs to do simple things, one task at a time. We run a filter in Photoshop, we do some work in iMovie...we rarely do multiple user-oriented things simultaneously. And that's why, for most of us, OS 9 is snappier.

    And I also prefer the OS 9 fonts. I simply can't stand those "smoothed" fonts...if you have a PowerBook, look at the lower cased Ls and Is in the menu bar. That vertical band of reddish pixels that's an artifact of font smoothing positively drives me nuts. I far prefer the "pixely" OS 9 fonts that are at least clear and readable. It also gives me more screen real estate -- try making the font for your desktop items in OS X the same size as the default Geneva 10 in OS 9 and see how readable it is with that white-outlined-with-black nonsense.

    Bottom line, I value performance over pretty. And over features sometimes, too. I can understand why sysadmins may love OS X...but for Joe User, who really compares between the two, I don't. Ultimately, I fault Apple for not giving people like me the customization options to make our fonts and windows like they were in OS 9, or to eliminate the dock. All that GUI nonsense slows down my machine (and I'm on a PowerBook 1Ghz with the 64MB video card, to boot!) and makes me a rather unhappy camper.

    So there's my opinion. :)
  19. springscansing macrumors 6502a


    Oct 13, 2002
    New York

    So .. yeah .. I'd still be a mac user. ;-)
  20. springscansing macrumors 6502a


    Oct 13, 2002
    New York
    Re: some os 9 thoughts

    I 100% agree. Fortunally I had the money to get a dual 867, so I think OS X is good for audio for myself personally, as Coreaudio is fantastic and OMS is hell.

    But yes, when Max/MSP comes out for X along with Reaktor, I'm switching. I hope Supercollider 3 server comes out soon as well too.

    Max is such a fantastic program.
  21. robbieduncan Moderator emeritus


    Jul 24, 2002
    No Way

    I bought my first ever Mac (Clamshell iBook 466 SE) to run the OS X Public Beta. Without OS X I would not have even considered buying a Mac. Before I was a hardcore Linux user (I am still a Linux user) and was looking for a laptop that would run Linux well. The iBook seemed to be about as good as the PC competition in that respect (but was the cheapest DVD playing laptop I could get in the UK at the time). But it was OS X that sealed the deal. I would now never buy a non-Mac laptop, although I am still an x86 desktop person.
  22. peterjhill macrumors 65816


    Apr 25, 2002
    Seattle, WA
    I have been an apple user since the apple iie. Apple would not have any marketshare now without an advanced OS. WinXP kicks OS9s butt for the things I want to do. I would probably have a dell laptop running Linux with VMWare running XP.
  23. aethier macrumors 6502a


    Feb 1, 2003
    Montréal, Canada
    If Apple never realesed mac os X i wouuld still be useing a Mac. first of all, my dad had a Mac Plus befor i was even born. He continued to upgrade by buying new macs every few years. so if os x never came out i would just be another happy os 9 users. i have nothing against that os. and after all, if OS X neve came out we would have nothing to compaire it to. winXP wouldnt be as good cause they would have no inovative new mac os to copy.

  24. moby1 macrumors 6502

    Jan 28, 2002
    Sunny San Diego

    I loved mac OS 8.6 and OS 9.2 at the time but...

    Based on my recent use of Windows XP Pro, I'd have moved over to an IBM ThinkPad with XPP and Red Hat 8 on it.

    I used OS X since the Public Beta and I was getting really frustrated with the progress by the release of 10.0 (sloo0). 10.2 "Jaguar" has finally confirmed to me that Jobs and the "NeXtites" were right. The clincher is the recent upgrades of the iApps - they are really getting to be a major factor in making OS X the most attractive OS today.

    I've ordered my iLife package & I can't wait to try iDVD 3 with iPhoto 2 to make a DVD of my digital photos! I think Apple should push the iApps as the reason to switch over the current "Switcher" campaign.

  25. moby1 macrumors 6502

    Jan 28, 2002
    Sunny San Diego
    and on FCE...

    Sexy new hardware aside, I think Final Cut Express was the biggest announcement at MWSF. There are plenty of us "prosumers" out there who don't need a top-of-the-line app' but are willing to pay a reasonable fee for something to expand beyond the consumer app's like iMovie.

    Perhaps we'll see a whole 2nd tier of app's like FCE. :)

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