If You Could, Would you Split the US into 2?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Epsilon88, Oct 23, 2010.

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Would you support the US splitting into 2 countries? (Read below first)

  1. Yes

    19 vote(s)
    30.6%
  2. No

    43 vote(s)
    69.4%
  1. Epsilon88 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    #1
    There seem to be very different visions for America right now. Many conservatives, especially in places like Texas (where the governor has openly called for secession), yearn for an America that returns to "traditional" values. These conservatives, such as the Tea Partiers, have had a powerful influence on US politics over the past decade, getting the country into the Iraq and Afghan war, deregulating the economy, opposing social liberalization like gay marriage and health care, and cutting taxes (unfortunately, without cutting spending).

    Now, I'm not saying that conservatism is necessarily a bad thing, but it does seem like the country is lagging tremendously behind other, more moderate nations such as Switzerland and Japan, in education, health care, overall living standards, you name it. Many of these policies are ones that the Tea Party expressly opposes (eg: Senator Jim DeMint calling for the abolition of the Department of Education).

    In light of this, would you support the idea of giving autonomous control to the Southern region of the United States, which is dominated by conservatives? Currently, these states elect nearly one third of the senators and was crucial in ensuring Bush's two successful wins. There would be open borders with this new country, but it would elect its own President and organize its own economy and foreign policy. With all the states in red below, this new Southern nation would have a population of approximately 90 million people.

    Meanwhile, there would be 210 million Americans left in the US. The political and demographic composition of this population would be dramatically different. Political power would shift dramatically to moderates and liberals, resulting in widespread changes in policies. Gay marriage, universal healthcare, greater investments in education and transport, a less militaristic foreign policy and new climate change policies would probably become a reality, mirroring other developed nations. Conversely, the voting base would also likely be more accepting of higher taxes to fund these changes.

    So, would you be opposed to this split and why? (PS: This is purely a thought exercise).
     

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  2. Simgar988 macrumors 65816

    Simgar988

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    UYBAATC
  3. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #3
    The issue is more down to a large percentage of US society being ignorant of politics and especially world affairs.

    Its also an issue in the UK and I'm sure many other countries and is something that needs to be solved for multi-party democracy to continue to work.

    The US has far less problems working together than the EU and the EU definitely is worthwhile.
     
  4. jb1280 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    #4
    First, let's assume that the general dynamics that you are describing are correct. If the proposed new states can conduct their own foreign policy, don't you think that it is naive to assume that the two states would be able to peacefully coexist, let alone have open borders? My belief is that it this would make the Korean Peninsula look like a bastion of stability.

    Second, the basic way that you describe political dynamics in the United States come from a faulty basis. There are some geographic issues, but more important issues transcend geography and include rural versus urban areas as well as various class issues.

    Third, your idea is going to hit a demographic wall. From 2008-2009, migration trends have had a negative effect on the population of the Northeast and Midwest and a positive impact on the South and the West. The American South is a very dynamic, prosperous, and growing part of the country while the Midwest is becoming increasingly desolate - particularly in keeping the best and brightest around.
     
  5. macquariumguy macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2002
    Location:
    Sarasota FL
    #5
    Oh hell no. I like living in Florida and don't want to give it over to the goobers.
     
  6. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    #6
    What about the 40+% of people in each "new" country that have political beliefs that mesh with the other "new" country? Maybe they could all just move?
     
  7. steviem macrumors 68020

    steviem

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Location:
    New York, Baby!
    #7
    Well, in the CSA, they will just imprison those with opposing views. Or they might bring back Segregation..

    Just to clarify. I think it's a terrible idea.
     
  8. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2007
    Location:
    IOWA
    #8
    You better add a whole bunch of western/northern states in there as well that vote conservative a great deal! And a bit less than 50% of the people in the blue states as well!

    :rolleyes: Genius.


    [​IMG]
     
  9. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    #9
    I like your map better. Groups all the red welfare states in the new, poor, 3rd world United States of Murica.
     
  10. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Location:
    OBJECTIVE reality
    #10
    Can we keep the upper half of Ohio blue, please? Seriously, once you get south of Columbus, it turns into Jesusland pretty quick.

    In terms of political health and cohesiveness, I really think we need to do a lot better job of informing the public. That includes more classes for students -- at a younger age -- in critical thinking skills, civics and history; increased fairness and balance (genuine stuff, not the Fox variety) in the media; and public campaign financing. I still have enough faith in the voters that I think if given enough real information they will make the right decisions. Trouble is now the red "half" of America is letting itself be manipulated by a bunch of powerful, cynical far-right bastards.

    You don't need two Americas if you've got logical-thinking voters being given accurate information.

    Not that I'm so naive I think we'll ever reach that goal, but it's something to strive for, rather than what we've got now, which is people making poor decisions based on hysterical propaganda.
     
  11. 184550 Guest

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    #11
    The Teabaggers didn't exist a decade ago and thus could not have had 'a powerful influence' on US politics for the past decade. If you look at the past four presidential terms, we had Clinton for two terms and Bush for two terms. That accounts for sixteen years, considerably more than your decade, and shows that Democrats and Republicans have had equal time in the White House.

    Your hypothetical was disproven in 1865.
     
  12. bobr1952 macrumors 68020

    bobr1952

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    #12
    Someone needs to move Florida out of the south. :D (politically of course, I'll keep the nice weather)
     
  13. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #13
    He means "neocons". And they did considerable damage to this country in the last 10 years. Looks like they aim to do more.
     
  14. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Location:
    On tenterhooks
    #14
    You can have Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, we'll trade them for all the blue states.

    Deal??
     
  15. Disc Golfer macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    #15
    As long as Washington, Oregon and Northern California go to British Columbia the rest of the US can get ****ed as far as I'm concerned.
     
  16. firestarter macrumors 603

    firestarter

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Location:
    Green and pleasant land
    #16
    Japan is a bad choice of comparison. I'd put the US standard of living way above Japan (which has it's own problems of overcrowding, long hour culture, brutal education system etc.)

    Don't get me wrong - I love Japan and have considered living there - but have been put off by the reality of the lifestyle.
     
  17. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #17
    WTF? What about Illinois and the East Coast?
     
  18. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    #18
    Why are you using an outdated map? More Americans came to their senses in 2008.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Disc Golfer macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    #19
    Not close enough to be BC and we Canadians aren't doing any more empire building. :p
     
  20. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

    Joined:
    May 31, 2006
    Location:
    New York
    #20
    East coast becomes part of Ontario and Maine joins New Brunswick (I'm sure Quebec wouldn't want a bunch of non-French speakers to suddenly overwhelm their province).

    If Wisconsin becomes a part of Ontario, then Illinois can too.
     
  21. Epsilon88 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    #21
    Interesting feedback so far. I wonder if many of the "Yes" votes are coming from outside the US?
     
  22. firestarter macrumors 603

    firestarter

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Location:
    Green and pleasant land
    #22
    I've taken the liberty to formulate a new map for you. I think that joining with your neighbours could work nicely (from a political point of view).

    Here you go. Don't mention it. :)
     

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  23. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #23
    Yay my state gets to be part of the free world!
     
  24. Epsilon88 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    #24
    Maybe you should use an UPDATED map to support your viewpoint. But then, that would require a basic amount of intelligence.

    Genius. :rolleyes:
     

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