Hi, I just joined tonight. Basically, I needed a place to rant about an ignorant person on a video game site I haunt. This is long, I know, but if you want to keep yourself entertained/occupied for a while, hear me out... We were discussing video game handhelds and the future of them (now that there are iPads). I said I believe the iPad was the most revolutionary video game handheld since the Gameboy because of it's large screen. Additionally, there are tens of thousands of games for it (more so than any platform in history), plus Onlive and a dozen or so emulators (which amounts to 6,000 or so retro games). Well, long story short, the poster tries to shoot me down with, "Most of the games are shallow (really, most of the tens of thousands of them? ), the controls are bad (I admit, touchscreen is not ideal for retro games and retro-like games, but that has been resolved with the iCade and iControlpad), and hardcore gamers don't consider it a gaming device "just cause." I really didn't want to take that sitting down, so I whipped up a reply and was tempted to post it. However, because things are pretty peaceful on the forum, and I don't want to stir things up (this is the internet, after all), I just thought it would be best to post my reply somewhere else, so I at least get the satisfaction of knowing it's "out there." Feel free to read it, comment, whatever. Hopefully, in the company of like-minded people, the facts will be taken for face value. The discussion starts here, in post three: http://www.neogeoforlife.com/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=11&thread_id=3804&pid=55583#post_55576 Here is my reply, which I didn't post: OK, to avoid appearing long-winded in my previous post, I left out the control issue. Yes, initially, the controls can be awkward and downright frustrating to use to gamers who grew up using physical controls. I personally try to avoid using touchscreen controls on the iPad, and I won't do touchscreen controls on a phone. However, this issue has already been solved with the recent introduction of the iCade by Ion (a tabletop cab with joystick and buttons) and iControlpad (a retro-looking pad). With a jailbroken iPad, these controllers can be used on any game with touchscreen controls (non JB iPads have a limited selection of games in terms of compatibility). To avoid appearing long-winded again, the rest of my post below can be summed up as: I believe you (candycab) are wrong, and the iPad appeals to the hardcore gamer if he weren't so stubborn. It is unclear to me whether you skipped over my points or dismissed them, but I will re-hit them in regard to your post. Someone who mainly only plays retro games, and to great lengths, would be considered hardcore to me, whether it be on the original consoles/handhelds, the iPad or whatever console of the day is peddling them on its network... Oh, how disappointed the hardcore retro gamer will be when he realizes he doesn't meet the definition of "hardcore" because he is playing his games on a gasp iPad! I don't understand how several lifetimes of retro games are things to scoff at by the hardcore gamer. No need to explain that one, it just puzzles me that a contemporary hardcore gamer might not consider someone who dedicates lots of their time to retro gaming as not being hardcore, or perhaps not a certain kind of hardcore. Overtly complex games/reality simulators (as in contemporary console games) aren't fun, and the complexity/simulations certainly don't make them better by those reasons alone. If hardcore gaming is defined by replaying the same PS3/360/PC game to the point of exhaustion, just to get every achievement/secret/unlockable, then call me non-hardcore. While some fun games were made for hardcore gamers, most fun games aren't made for hardcore gamers. Whether a game is aimed at the hardcore or softcore gamer, I hope we can agree that a game should only be played if it is enjoyable to the person playing. Still, there are people out there who live for that kind of thing (the hardcore game), and there are APPs already available for them. The iPad has ports of popular console games. As also stated, a new APP called Onlive offers the ability to play actual PS3/360/PC games via cloud gaming (using a physical, Online branded controller). Shallow? That's a very broad generalization to make considering, (again) there are tens of thousands of games! I won't deny there are some shallow, overtly simple (as well as overtly complex), and downright bad games amongst the mix of tens of thousands, but that is true for consoles and handhelds across the board. You said it as if there are no other consoles or handhelds that experience bad games. It would seem bad games is something to worry about more when one's pool of games is quite limited (PS3 and 360 both have under a thousand, and I'm sure the PSP & 3DS have much less than that). Generally speaking, the aversion to phones and tablets by "hardcore" gamers is by a lack of knowledge or plain bullheadedness. Oh well, their loss, and not my concern really. I didn't get the car comparison... The Ferrari is someone who dedicates most of his life to gaming on the PS3/360/PC, while the Yugo is someone who has a well rounded life and incorporates various forms of gaming into it from time to time? Or, was the car comparison strictly a hardware one, was the iPad the Ferrari? I do agree, however, traditional handhelds and the iPad are coming from different approaches; the way people perceive and play video games is changing.