Ignoring Trump’s Orders, Hoping He’ll Forget

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Rogifan, May 15, 2019.

  1. Rogifan macrumors Core

    Rogifan

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    #1
    This is actually quite scary. If officials ignore Trump’s impulses thinking he’ll forget or move on to something else what’s to say they won’t try and implement their own agendas thinking they can get away with it considering Trump’s short attention span and lack of getting into details on policy.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/05/trump-aides-ignore-president/589489/
     
  2. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Location:
    Flea Bottom, King's Landing
    #2
    What makes you think they can get away with following their own agenda? The way our Gub'ment is set up, there is always a paper trail that will lead back to the source.

    Anyhow, Congress needs to assert it's authority as the law making branch of the government. The Executive branch is suppose to execute the law, not make them.
     
  3. samcraig macrumors P6

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    #3
    But I thought Trump had the best brain. He tweeted about it this morning too!
     
  4. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    #4
    Then again we have the courts that legislate. But thats why we have checks and balances to help prevent that, not perfect, but probably better than most.
     
  5. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    #5
    Regardless of the fact the man is a fool and clearly mentally incapable of the job, you don’t have any qualms with unelected people running the show? Doesn’t that completely subvert the idea of a democracy? How is that not a soft coup?
     
  6. samcraig macrumors P6

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    #6
    Sorry - are you suggesting it's better to leave someone in the highest post of this country if they are mentally incapable?
     
  7. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Location:
    Flea Bottom, King's Landing
    #7
    I worked with Ronny Ray-Gun. Sorta.
     
  8. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    #8
    No, like I’ve been saying since day one the Democrats should be drawing up articles of impeachment over his clear corruption and violations of the emoluments clause, but they won’t, because they are functionally useless.

    So that leaves the John Bolton’s and Stephen Miller’s *actually* running the administration...

    So if it were any other person as president, what would you call it when someone under them is the one making decisions and ignoring orders?
     
  9. Tech198 macrumors G5

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Location:
    Australia, Perth
    #9
    They forget.. With so many presidents, "not remembering where the bathroom was yesterday" it's common.
     
  10. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    #10
    Once Trump is out of office I fully expect the Times Bestselling Book list to feature a book by former Trump staffer’s chronicling his gross incompetence in the top 5 for the next decade.
     
  11. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    #11
    Unemployed.

    I find it funny when talking about it, someone said Trump couldn't fire anyone unless his staff allowed it, which is hilarious. Not like he won't pick up a phone and fire someone and then fire the person who refused to do it.
     
  12. vrDrew macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #12
    "Following their own agenda" is one thing. But that wasn't quite the way it happened. From The Atlantic article:

    Emphasis added.

    Subordinates have not just the authority, but I would argue the duty to refuse to carry out illegal instructions.

    As a homeowner, I am the unquestioned "boss" of my own house. But that doesn't mean an electrician I engage is obligated to install wiring or appliances in a manner that contravenes building or electrical codes. If I demand something that is illegal or dangerous, then the contractor in question has an obligation to point out the error. That's not a contractor "following his own agenda" - it is the foundation of safe and legal construction.
     
  13. duffman9000 macrumors 68000

    duffman9000

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2003
    Location:
    Deep in the Depths of CA
    #13
    I recall this being Reagan's last couple of years in office. With adults in the room, somehow we got through it.
     
  14. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Location:
    Scotland
    #14
    I prefer him over Trump, and that is saying something.
     
  15. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    #15
    The adults are John Bolton, Stephen Miller, etc.
     
  16. duffman9000 macrumors 68000

    duffman9000

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2003
    Location:
    Deep in the Depths of CA
    #16
    I stand corrected. It's worse, much, much worse.
    The minute Bolton came into power I thought we're on a countdown to a war with Iran.
     
  17. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    #17
    I saw him gunning for this last year. He’s get far more “progress” on his regime change plan in Venezuela though, all mainstream sources are uncritically reporting the narrative that Bolton & Co have cooked up. At the same time, Schumer tweeted last week that we need to “stand strong” (paraphrasing, don’t know the exact words offhand) on China.

    We have no real adults, just crony’s on both sides of the aisle of international oligarchs whom will ramp up geopolitical tensions for their own gain while bringing us ever closer to conflict all around the world.

    Just wait for the next economic crash and watch as we scapegoat it on individual nations using jingoistic framing to deflect away from the root cause: our twisted world wide economic paradigm that was STRENGTHENED by the response to the Great Recession (every too big to fail firm is larger and more leveraged than ever before in human history).
     
  18. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto
    #18
    Maybe that's why he hasn't ratified the trade deal with Mexico and Canada!

    I guess I'm showing my age here when it reminds me of Regan's last year or two in office. "I cannot recall"
     
  19. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    #19

    Before I served as a consultant to Kennedy, I had believed, like most academicians, that the process of decision‐making was largely intellectual and that all one had to do was to walk into the President’s office and convince him of the correctness of one’s views. This perspective I soon realized is as dangerously immature as it is widely held.
    [...]
    Any President soon discovers that his problem is not only to give an order but to get it implemented, and this requires willing cooperation. Bureaucratically unpopular orders can be evaded in a variety of ways. They can be interpreted by skilled exegesis to yield a result as close as possible to what the department most concerned wanted in the first place; there can be endless procrastination in implementation; leaks can sabotage a policy by sparking a controversy. And there is the intangible human quality; cut off from most normal contacts, Presidents are acutely uncomfortable with unhappy associates—and seek to avoid the problem if at all possible.



    The choice of speechwriters always determined the tone and not infrequently the substance of a Presidential speech. The common conception is that speechwriters are passive instruments who docilely craft into elegant prose the policy thought of their principals. On the contrary, the vast majority of them are frustrated principals themselves who seek to use their privileged position to put over their own ideas. Well aware that a Presidential sentence can be used as a charter by the bureaucracy, they seek to monopolize the final process, rationalizing their efforts as a struggle for the soul of the President. Whatever it was we were struggling over, there were occasionally quite bitter exchanges between my staff and the writers when we saw the mutations they had wrought.
    [...]
    Intellectually the systems analysts were more often right than not; but they soon learned that the way a question is put can often predetermine an answer, and their efforts in the hallowed name of objectivity frequently wound up pushing personal preconceptions.

    All the text above from Kissinger's "The White Years". What was true in the 1970's is true today, with the exception that leaks are way easy nowadays.
    I also remember reading/listening to him describe that one of the biggest problems for an aide is separating what a real order to be carried out is and what is an outburst that sounds like an order to be carried out is. On top of that, usually the listener is biased.
     

Share This Page

18 May 15, 2019