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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by stubeeef, Dec 12, 2004.
Well this was refreshing!
Christmas is BACK!!!!! and in a blue state, wow!
The Fakinator, all he wants for christmas is to be Prez. Probably get it too, eventually. Why not, politics have become a joke lately.
What's so refreshing about it? Did Davis's decision submerge California in a sweltering sesspool of immorality from which Ahnold's gesture has lifted it?
It was someone taking the X out of Xmas and not pandering to every politically correct phrase around. What in heavens name is so offensive about the word CHRISTMAS or the phrase CHRISTMAS TREE!
Can't we just say those two simple words without a protest!
I'd rather see it called a Christmas tree, because that's what it's called. There are songs about Christmas trees. Before this year, I'd never even heard anyone call it a "holiday tree."
But Stubeef -- what's with the exclamation marks and all? We still had Christmas here in California all along. I think it was silly to call it a "holiday tree," but I don't really feel any different now that Arnold has changed what he calls it.
Nevermind, I see you posted while I was typing my response.
I think that's one way to spin it - another is that Davis made the celebration more inclusionary of those who celebrate other holidays at this time of year (e.g. Hannukah, Kwanzaa, etc.). Though the tradition of the tree is most closely linked to Christmas, I don't see why it's a bad thing to make the celebration non-faith specific.
Irregardless of your belief system, if the picture of it was in a dictionary, it would be called a Christmas Tree! So lets call it by it's name.
I have no problem with phrases like " happy holidays"
but what is a holiday menorah?
I can't stand it when PC goes hog wild.
Really? I don't recall you objecting to it very much when I cited examples of right wing political correctness.
Then I am remiss. Cause it is out of control again.
It was called a Solstice Tree before the Christians got their hands on it. I know you want us to respect the Christian foundations of this country, will you in turn respect the Pagan foundations of the Tree?
Sorry, I wasn't aware the pagans put lights and tinsel on their trees. Did they get allot of shiney bulbs from China/Walmart too!
Give it a break, we don't call cars buggies, they moved up to cars now.
Sorry, I wasn't aware that Christianity spoke of fundamental freedoms and equality of all mankind. Did they add in some chapters from Locke and Voltaire too!
Give it a break, we don't call the Constitution the Bible, they moved up to the Constitution now.
Sorry, but what in heavens name does the words Christmas Tree have to do with the Constitution, and for that matter the Bible? Who made reference to the Constituition evolving to a Bible? I am ready for the "germans bombing pear harbor" roll any minute.
I am preemptively striking the place where this thread is going--Whether or not Christianity is the foundation of our country and government. Actually, it is also where this thread has already been:
so that's why pears have been so expensive! ;-)
mact, please let me know how I can respect the heritage of the Christmas Tree.
I will try.
Dear All you Pagans,
Thanks for liking to use greenry in the winter, being that it was winter, I imagine there wasn't much else, but great Idea. And since US Christians have moved in on your special time of the year and started gussying up trees too, I want to say thankyou very much for a great idea, after all Giving an idea is what this Giving season is all about!
Well for starters, since you have elected to change the intent of the founders of the Solstice Tree by claiming it for Christianity you can stop complaining when we change what you claim is the intent of the believing Founding Fathers from their deist beliefs to a more secular government.
And since you mention it, how do you know Christ was born on that particular day? Doesn't it seem a little suspicious to you that so many Christian holidays fall on or near a pre-existing Pagan holiday? Funny that the Christian holiday of Easter (the miracle of rebirth) happens right around the Pagan holiday celebrating the rebirth that happens every spring? You ever wonder why bunnies and eggs and such are so tied up with the death and resurection of Christ?
This will give you a little idea of how a modern Pagan might approach the holiday season. It tends to the general Pagan, not any of the subsets specifically, but if you look it over I think you'll be surprised at how non-threatening their rituals are, and how similar they are to your own.
Oh and do not assume that Pagans today still use the same primitive items they did 2000 years ago. Do Christians decorate their tree the same way they did 500 years ago? Did you have electric lights then? Tinsel? Modern pagans aren't retarded you know.
Of course they are! I'll find the link from south park.
And I'm sure you'd like me to point you to the episode where both the town priest AND Jesus Christ admit to having sex with Cartman's mom as evidence of what Christians are like?
The Christmas tree is Santa Claus to me, the Nativity Scene is Christmas.
Where did I say that, this has been beaten as much as my forehead. We have all said, as everyone knows, the celebration was moved to the winter in a "marketing move". Haven't you read those threads?
Refer to "marketing move" comment.
No. It is pagan. Christianity is Christ, the Cross, and the lamb.
And Santa has it's origins too....
Great link on where Santa came from. It seems that Santa is a product of Evolution!
I can tell you that I am not in the least threatened by pagans. I would not be much of a believer in Christ, If threatened by pagans.
This is simply a great example of adaptation vs evolution.
So if you freely admit that Christians have hijacked Pagan holidays left and right, how can you possible complain that Christians are now being put upon when secular interests take over the meaning from you? When consumerism replaces Jesus as 'the reason for the season' how do you complain about it with a straight face when your religion did the exact same thing to a previous culture?
Like I said, I have no interest in changing how you celebrate your holiday. Just be understanding about the way others celebrate theirs. Not all of us believe that Jesus is the reason for the season.
Oh, and the lamb? Also a pagan symbol.
When have you heard me say you can't celebrate anything the way you want to?
I have said no problem with "happy holidays", I think that is not a fight worth fighting, at least it is a positive and uplifting statement.
But don't get all blustery about my celebration and the words Christmas Tree.
And this whole pagan symbols thing has got to be the most juvenile discussion I have been roped into in a long time.
Well wasn't the whole point of this thread that you started to complain that I'm stifling your ability to celebrate Christmas the way you want to, with celebrations in my state capital?
Deal. But don't get all blustery about MY celebration and the words 'Holiday Tree'. OK?
How is it juvenile? Am I talking down to you? Treating you like a kid? Or is the subject matter beneath you? You want to talk about the great traditions and heritage of our country and your faith, but when the talk turns to where those traditions come from, suddenly it's juvenile? If you don't want to talk about it fine, just stop. But don't tell me I'm being juvenile.
St.Nicholas aka. 6. dezember is still 'celebrated' here and yes he is still wearing his bishop clothes (and he only brings nuts,oranges,apples, and a few sweets for the 'good' childrens )
You're not talking down to me, you are not being mean. It is the "this is mine" you stole it kind of conversation. It is not where it came from vs didn't, it is the "we had it first" thing that seemed silly.
Alot of christianity comes out of judism too!
Maybe we can now discuss the evolution of bunnies in religion.
No, it was nomenclature.