"I'll be Back" for Christmas


Xtremehkr

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Jul 4, 2004
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The Fakinator, all he wants for christmas is to be Prez. Probably get it too, eventually. Why not, politics have become a joke lately.
 

themadchemist

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Jan 31, 2003
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Chi Town
What's so refreshing about it? Did Davis's decision submerge California in a sweltering sesspool of immorality from which Ahnold's gesture has lifted it?
 

stubeeef

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Aug 10, 2004
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It was someone taking the X out of Xmas and not pandering to every politically correct phrase around. What in heavens name is so offensive about the word CHRISTMAS or the phrase CHRISTMAS TREE!

Can't we just say those two simple words without a protest!
 

dotnina

macrumors 6502a
Aug 19, 2004
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I'd rather see it called a Christmas tree, because that's what it's called. There are songs about Christmas trees. Before this year, I'd never even heard anyone call it a "holiday tree."

But Stubeef -- what's with the exclamation marks and all? We still had Christmas here in California all along. I think it was silly to call it a "holiday tree," but I don't really feel any different now that Arnold has changed what he calls it.

-Edit-
Nevermind, I see you posted while I was typing my response.
 

Rower_CPU

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Oct 5, 2001
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stubeeef said:
It was someone taking the X out of Xmas and not pandering to every politically correct phrase around. What in heavens name is so offensive about the word CHRISTMAS or the phrase CHRISTMAS TREE!

Can't we just say those two simple words without a protest!
I think that's one way to spin it - another is that Davis made the celebration more inclusionary of those who celebrate other holidays at this time of year (e.g. Hannukah, Kwanzaa, etc.). Though the tradition of the tree is most closely linked to Christmas, I don't see why it's a bad thing to make the celebration non-faith specific.
 

stubeeef

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Irregardless of your belief system, if the picture of it was in a dictionary, it would be called a Christmas Tree! So lets call it by it's name.

I have no problem with phrases like " happy holidays"

but what is a holiday menorah?

I can't stand it when PC goes hog wild.
 

stubeeef

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IJ Reilly said:
Really? I don't recall you objecting to it very much when I cited examples of right wing political correctness.
Then I am remiss. Cause it is out of control again.
 

mactastic

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Apr 24, 2003
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stubeeef said:
Irregardless of your belief system, if the picture of it was in a dictionary, it would be called a Christmas Tree! So lets call it by it's name.

I have no problem with phrases like " happy holidays"

but what is a holiday menorah?

I can't stand it when PC goes hog wild.
It was called a Solstice Tree before the Christians got their hands on it. I know you want us to respect the Christian foundations of this country, will you in turn respect the Pagan foundations of the Tree?
 

stubeeef

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mactastic said:
It was called a Solstice Tree before the Christians got their hands on it. I know you want us to respect the Christian foundations of this country, will you in turn respect the Pagan foundations of the Tree?
Sorry, I wasn't aware the pagans put lights and tinsel on their trees. Did they get allot of shiney bulbs from China/Walmart too!

Give it a break, we don't call cars buggies, they moved up to cars now.
 

themadchemist

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stubeeef said:
Sorry, I wasn't aware the pagans put lights and tinsel on their trees. Did they get allot of shiney bulbs from China/Walmart too!

Give it a break, we don't call cars buggies, they moved up to cars now.
Sorry, I wasn't aware that Christianity spoke of fundamental freedoms and equality of all mankind. Did they add in some chapters from Locke and Voltaire too!

Give it a break, we don't call the Constitution the Bible, they moved up to the Constitution now.
 

stubeeef

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themadchemist said:
Sorry, I wasn't aware that Christianity spoke of fundamental freedoms and equality of all mankind. Did they add in some chapters from Locke and Voltaire too!

Give it a break, we don't call the Constitution the Bible, they moved up to the Constitution now.
:confused: :confused: :confused:

Sorry, but what in heavens name does the words Christmas Tree have to do with the Constitution, and for that matter the Bible? Who made reference to the Constituition evolving to a Bible? I am ready for the "germans bombing pear harbor" roll any minute.
 

themadchemist

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stubeeef said:
:confused: :confused: :confused:

Sorry, but what in heavens name does the words Christmas Tree have to do with the Constitution, and for that matter the Bible? Who made reference to the Constituition evolving to a Bible? I am ready for the "germans bombing pear harbor" roll any minute.
I am preemptively striking the place where this thread is going--Whether or not Christianity is the foundation of our country and government. Actually, it is also where this thread has already been:

mactastic said:
I know you want us to respect the Christian foundations of this country, will you in turn respect the Pagan foundations of the Tree?
 

stubeeef

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mact, please let me know how I can respect the heritage of the Christmas Tree.

I will try.

Dear All you Pagans,
Thanks for liking to use greenry in the winter, being that it was winter, I imagine there wasn't much else, but great Idea. And since US Christians have moved in on your special time of the year and started gussying up trees too, I want to say thankyou very much for a great idea, after all Giving an idea is what this Giving season is all about!
 

mactastic

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Apr 24, 2003
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Well for starters, since you have elected to change the intent of the founders of the Solstice Tree by claiming it for Christianity you can stop complaining when we change what you claim is the intent of the believing Founding Fathers from their deist beliefs to a more secular government.

And since you mention it, how do you know Christ was born on that particular day? Doesn't it seem a little suspicious to you that so many Christian holidays fall on or near a pre-existing Pagan holiday? Funny that the Christian holiday of Easter (the miracle of rebirth) happens right around the Pagan holiday celebrating the rebirth that happens every spring? You ever wonder why bunnies and eggs and such are so tied up with the death and resurection of Christ?

This will give you a little idea of how a modern Pagan might approach the holiday season. It tends to the general Pagan, not any of the subsets specifically, but if you look it over I think you'll be surprised at how non-threatening their rituals are, and how similar they are to your own.

Oh and do not assume that Pagans today still use the same primitive items they did 2000 years ago. Do Christians decorate their tree the same way they did 500 years ago? Did you have electric lights then? Tinsel? Modern pagans aren't retarded you know. ;)
 

mactastic

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And I'm sure you'd like me to point you to the episode where both the town priest AND Jesus Christ admit to having sex with Cartman's mom as evidence of what Christians are like?
 

stubeeef

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The Christmas tree is Santa Claus to me, the Nativity Scene is Christmas.


Well for starters, since you have elected to change the intent of the founders of the Solstice Tree by claiming it for Christianity you can stop complaining when we change what you claim is the intent of the believing Founding Fathers from their deist beliefs to a more secular government.
reference please.
And since you mention it, how do you know Christ was born on that particular day?
Where did I say that, this has been beaten as much as my forehead. We have all said, as everyone knows, the celebration was moved to the winter in a "marketing move". Haven't you read those threads?
Doesn't it seem a little suspicious to you that so many Christian holidays fall on or near a pre-existing Pagan holiday?
Refer to "marketing move" comment.
You ever wonder why bunnies and eggs and such are so tied up with the death and resurection of Christ?
No. It is pagan. Christianity is Christ, the Cross, and the lamb.
And Santa has it's origins too....
When conclusions are drawn about the origin of Santa Claus, extreme statements should be avoided. This short article has shown that the modern Santa Claus has been shaped by many factors and is a conglomeration of myths and legends. I feel compelled, however, to make several observations.

First, it is absolutely inaccurate to claim that "Santa Claus is a Christian" or that "Santa Claus is St. Nicholas." Though it is true that the historical St. Nicholas was a Christian man, the preceding has shown that the modern Santa Claus has nothing to do with Nicholas of Myra, other than his name. The modern Santa Claus has been greatly influenced by the custom of "the visit of St. Nicholas," in which the saint would show up on the eve of his Feast Day to give gifts to children. But the custom of his "visit" is certainly not based on the historical man; rather it is based on legends attached to him, and it is possibly based on preChristian myths (about Odin, Thor, etc.). It is also a rather silly and misleading argument to state that "Nicholas was generous and Santa Claus is generous, so the same spirit permeates both." Right!
Great link on where Santa came from. It seems that Santa is a product of Evolution!

It tends to the general Pagan, not any of the subsets specifically, but if you look it over I think you'll be surprised at how non-threatening their rituals are, and how similar they are to your own.
I can tell you that I am not in the least threatened by pagans. I would not be much of a believer in Christ, If threatened by pagans. :rolleyes:
Oh and do not assume that Pagans today still use the same primitive items they did 2000 years ago. Do Christians decorate their tree the same way they did 500 years ago? Did you have electric lights then? Tinsel?
This is simply a great example of adaptation vs evolution. ;)
 

mactastic

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So if you freely admit that Christians have hijacked Pagan holidays left and right, how can you possible complain that Christians are now being put upon when secular interests take over the meaning from you? When consumerism replaces Jesus as 'the reason for the season' how do you complain about it with a straight face when your religion did the exact same thing to a previous culture?

Like I said, I have no interest in changing how you celebrate your holiday. Just be understanding about the way others celebrate theirs. Not all of us believe that Jesus is the reason for the season.

Oh, and the lamb? Also a pagan symbol.
 

stubeeef

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Like I said, I have no interest in changing how you celebrate your holiday. Just be understanding about the way others celebrate theirs
When have you heard me say you can't celebrate anything the way you want to?
I have said no problem with "happy holidays", I think that is not a fight worth fighting, at least it is a positive and uplifting statement.
But don't get all blustery about my celebration and the words Christmas Tree.
And this whole pagan symbols thing has got to be the most juvenile discussion I have been roped into in a long time.
 

mactastic

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stubeeef said:
When have you heard me say you can't celebrate anything the way you want to?
Well wasn't the whole point of this thread that you started to complain that I'm stifling your ability to celebrate Christmas the way you want to, with celebrations in my state capital?

I have said no problem with "happy holidays", I think that is not a fight worth fighting, at least it is a positive and uplifting statement.
But don't get all blustery about my celebration and the words Christmas Tree.
Deal. But don't get all blustery about MY celebration and the words 'Holiday Tree'. OK?

And this whole pagan symbols thing has got to be the most juvenile discussion I have been roped into in a long time.
How is it juvenile? Am I talking down to you? Treating you like a kid? Or is the subject matter beneath you? You want to talk about the great traditions and heritage of our country and your faith, but when the talk turns to where those traditions come from, suddenly it's juvenile? If you don't want to talk about it fine, just stop. But don't tell me I'm being juvenile.
 

stubeeef

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mactastic said:
How is it juvenile? Am I talking down to you? Treating you like a kid? Or is the subject matter beneath you? You want to talk about the great traditions and heritage of our country and your faith, but when the talk turns to where those traditions come from, suddenly it's juvenile? If you don't want to talk about it fine, just stop. But don't tell me I'm being juvenile.
You're not talking down to me, you are not being mean. It is the "this is mine" you stole it kind of conversation. It is not where it came from vs didn't, it is the "we had it first" thing that seemed silly.
Alot of christianity comes out of judism too!
Maybe we can now discuss the evolution of bunnies in religion.

Well wasn't the whole point of this thread that you started to complain that I'm stifling your ability to celebrate Christmas the way you want to, with celebrations in my state capital?
No, it was nomenclature.