Illegal Immigration: what created the shift?

FrankieTDouglas

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Obama (Barack and Michelle), Schumer, Clinton (Bill and Hillary), Pelosi, Biden, Feinstein, and others, all on record calling for a tighter focus on illegal immigration, deportations, issues with Mexico, the welfare state, etc etc....

If you watched the DNC debates, the Democratic party looks nothing like this now. In fact, these political leaders sounded much more in line with Trump's current immigration policies. What happened? When did the shift occur, and why?
 

vrDrew

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Jan 31, 2010
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What created this? Donald Trump and the benighted chumps that voted for him.

There is no "crisis" of illegal immigration. As the stats above show, the number of people in the Us without documentation has steadily been decreasing. It goes up and down, due mainly to changes in economic conditions here in the US and other countries, as well as during periods of instability.

But the "crisis" is entirely a figment of Trump's imagination. Dreamed up to whip silly old white people into a frenzy of fear and anger. And in order for that to happen: then the Democrats, the same people who pursued immigration policies in line with their Republican compatriots, have to be turned into the culprits.
 

Herdfan

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Apr 11, 2011
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If you watched the DNC debates, the Democratic party looks nothing like this now. In fact, these political leaders sounded much more in line with Trump's current immigration policies. What happened? When did the shift occur, and why?
Votes. It is as simple as that. I am sure someone will chime in that illegals and non-citizens can't vote. While mostly true, what is missed by the "they can't vote crowd" is that their kids who were born in this country are citizens and can vote.

It is a long game the Dems are playing here. Let illegals in knowing that they are going to get 60-65% of their kid's votes in the future.
 
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vrDrew

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As long as 5 times deported vermin, like the loser who killed Kate, keep entering into the country illegally....
The fact that you cite stuff like this illustrates how badly you understand the problem. And how easily some people get conned.

Illegal immigrants commit less crime, and less violent crime than native-born citizens.



You could take any large enough population, and cherry-pick random individuals who commit crime. I could pick police officers, clergymen, and certified public accountants, and find the odd ones who committed murders or rapes. That doesn't mean we should vilify cops, priests, or accountants in general.

There isn't a crisis. The number of people in the US illegally has decreased. The amount of violent crime, in general, has been decreasing for decades now.

The "crisis" was created by charlatans like Trump, who grab a handful of cases, and suggest it's an epidemic. And foolish, scared people who don't understand 1) numbers and 2) how easily they are being fooled, make the situation worse.
 

jkcerda

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Jun 10, 2013
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What created this? Donald Trump and the benighted chumps that voted for him.

There is no "crisis" of illegal immigration. As the stats above show, the number of people in the Us without documentation has steadily been decreasing. It goes up and down, due mainly to changes in economic conditions here in the US and other countries, as well as during periods of instability.

But the "crisis" is entirely a figment of Trump's imagination. Dreamed up to whip silly old white people into a frenzy of fear and anger. And in order for that to happen: then the Democrats, the same people who pursued immigration policies in line with their Republican compatriots, have to be turned into the culprits.
Trump created the sanctuary cities that entice illegals to come?
 

baypharm

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Nov 15, 2007
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In Jacksonville Fl however, the violence crimewave has gone up since the last election.
 

Vanilla Ice

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Jan 30, 2011
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The fact that you cite stuff like this illustrates how badly you understand the problem. And how easily some people get conned.

Illegal immigrants commit less crime, and less violent crime than native-born citizens.



You could take any large enough population, and cherry-pick random individuals who commit crime. I could pick police officers, clergymen, and certified public accountants, and find the odd ones who committed murders or rapes. That doesn't mean we should vilify cops, priests, or accountants in general.

There isn't a crisis. The number of people in the US illegally has decreased. The amount of violent crime, in general, has been decreasing for decades now.

The "crisis" was created by charlatans like Trump, who grab a handful of cases, and suggest it's an epidemic. And foolish, scared people who don't understand 1) numbers and 2) how easily they are being fooled, make the situation worse.
Thank you for posting undocumented numbers that shouldn’t even be a statistic to begin with. Also, you compare Trump to Obama when it comes to the word “Crisis”..... Let me guess, Trump is the next president to hold the title, deporter in chief and that soon will be an issue with the left?
 

Apple OC

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Oct 14, 2010
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The fact that you cite stuff like this illustrates how badly you understand the problem. And how easily some people get conned.

Illegal immigrants commit less crime, and less violent crime than native-born citizens.



You could take any large enough population, and cherry-pick random individuals who commit crime. I could pick police officers, clergymen, and certified public accountants, and find the odd ones who committed murders or rapes. That doesn't mean we should vilify cops, priests, or accountants in general.

There isn't a crisis. The number of people in the US illegally has decreased. The amount of violent crime, in general, has been decreasing for decades now.

The "crisis" was created by charlatans like Trump, who grab a handful of cases, and suggest it's an epidemic. And foolish, scared people who don't understand 1) numbers and 2) how easily they are being fooled, make the situation worse.
the bolded part... how do you know this is true, if they have never been able to accurately know how many illegal aliens are actually in the country?

Americans getting killed by illegal aliens, roaming the country outside of the law, is a crisis... no, it is not part and parcel.
 
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Eraserhead

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the bolded part... how do you know this is true, if they have never been able to accurately know how many illegal aliens are actually in the country?

Americans getting killed by illegal aliens, roaming the country outside of the law, is a crisis... no, it is not part and parcel.
I think they have a pretty good idea how many illegal immigrants there are from sampling.
 
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Herdfan

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the bolded part... how do you know this is true, if they have never been able to accurately know how many illegal aliens are actually in the country?

Americans getting killed by illegal aliens, roaming the country outside of the law, is a crisis... no, it is not part and parcel.
You are wasting your breath or keystrokes. The left will not under any circumstance acknowledge that IF the illegals that commit the crimes were not in the country the crimes would not have been committed. It is almost like they think a citizen would have committed that crime anyway.
 
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Eraserhead

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You are wasting your breath or keystrokes. The left will not under any circumstance acknowledge that IF the illegals that commit the crimes were not in the country the crimes would not have been committed. It is almost like they think a citizen would have committed that crime anyway.
I personally see no issue with reducing illegal immigration if it is growing.
 

Jensend

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Dec 19, 2008
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You are wasting your breath or keystrokes. The left will not under any circumstance acknowledge that IF the illegals that commit the crimes were not in the country the crimes would not have been committed. It is almost like they think a citizen would have committed that crime anyway.
You can say the same thing about legal immigrants, or any other people group. Some highly vetted legal immigrants commit horrible crimes. I’m not sure what your point is?
 

Herdfan

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You can say the same thing about legal immigrants, or any other people group. Some highly vetted legal immigrants commit horrible crimes. I’m not sure what your point is?
It is very simple. Legal immigrants are allowed to be here. Illegal ones aren't.

If the illegal ones were not here, they could not commit crimes. It really is not that complicated of a concept.
 

Jensend

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Dec 19, 2008
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It is very simple. Legal immigrants are allowed to be here. Illegal ones aren't.

If the illegal ones were not here, they could not commit crimes. It really is not that complicated of a concept.
What you are saying is true.
But if illegal immigrants commit fewer crimes per capita than citizens, that means each individual person in the US would be less likely to be the victim of a crime.

I don’t know the crime rates by immigration status. I’ve seen a few graphs, but I don’t know how accurate/trustworthy they are. Also, I suppose that it’s possible that illegal immigration could result in an increased crime rate by citizens.
 

NT1440

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May 18, 2008
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Surely we wouldn’t want to look at the countries where most people are fleeing and examine the coup we supported militarily (which is illegal but got a waiver) or the oppressive governments we’re supporting.

This will be latched onto by the right wingers here in bad faith, and those loyal to the Democratic Party don’t want to hear a bad word at all, but Obama’s policies in Honduras and Nicaragua created the conditions these people are desperately fleeing.

The point is that America’s imperial strategy is driving these types of crises all over the world, either in toppling governments, supporting military coups against popular governments (which is not to say perfect governments, because those do not exist), or arming/training/supporting brutal governments around the world. This has NOTHING to do with partisan nonsense because both parties have had the exact same overall foreign policy (just varying degrees of outright cruelty, or selling destruction on humanitarian grounds) since the end of WWII.

Trump of course is as craven as possible in responding to these outcomes because he’s personally a POS, but this is another example of his administration ramping up the militarism of *existing* policy to cartoonish levels.
 

Eraserhead

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Surely we wouldn’t want to look at the countries where most people are fleeing and examine the coup we supported militarily (which is illegal but got a waiver) or the oppressive governments we’re supporting.

This will be latched onto by the right wingers here in bad faith, and those loyal to the Democratic Party don’t want to hear a bad word at all, but Obama’s policies in Honduras and Nicaragua created the conditions these people are desperately fleeing.

The point is that America’s imperial strategy is driving these types of crises all over the world, either in toppling governments, supporting military coups against popular governments (which is not to say perfect governments, because those do not exist), or arming/training/supporting brutal governments around the world. This has NOTHING to do with partisan nonsense because both parties have had the exact same overall foreign policy (just varying degrees of outright cruelty, or selling destruction on humanitarian grounds) since the end of WWII.

Trump of course is as craven as possible in responding to these outcomes because he’s personally a POS, but this is another example of his administration ramping up the militarism of *existing* policy to cartoonish levels.
Personally I’d blame the war on drugs. But I’m not surprised if Obama made things in Central America worse. Although I think the Mexican zero tolerance policy was pretty bad. Certainly south Mexico appears to have got less safe in recent years.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

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It is very simple. Legal immigrants are allowed to be here. Illegal ones aren't.

If the illegal ones were not here, they could not commit crimes. It really is not that complicated of a concept.
It is complicated when Trump and his supporters have no issue illegally employing them. Maybe if they stop employing undocumented immigrants, then less of them will come.
 

Sydde

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Surely we wouldn’t want to look at the countries where most people are fleeing …
No, because they are coming here. They are leaving the sh'hole countries because the US is the greatest land of opportunity, where they …

(sorry, cannot keep that up, have to go barf now)

Obama’s policies in Honduras and Nicaragua created the conditions these people are desperately fleeing.
Did he establish those policies? Because, I went to school with Ben Linder, who was murdered by Reagan for trying to help rural Nicaraguans. That was a long time ago, and there has been continuous ***** around on the isthmus since then. Did Obama change something? More importantly, if he had done good things in Central America, would Individual-1 have not made a big deal about reversing those policies, because, Obama?
 

vrDrew

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Is illegal immigration a serious problem in the United States? Does illegal immigration, or illegal immigrants, make typical Americans lives worse?

The answer to that question is obviously: No. Unless you happen to be a rancher along the Mexican border, whose property is crossed by, and sometimes damaged by, migrants - then: No. It doesn't really affect you.

Most Americans probably benefit from illegal immigration. In the form of cheaper farm produce; and other goods and services typically produced by migrant labor. And the undocumented typically pay far more in employment taxes than they cost in Government services.

So why, then, are so many Americans trembling and quivering with righteous anger about illegal immigration?

Because Donald Trump conned them. Like he has conned people into buying his garbage his entire life.
 
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NT1440

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No, because they are coming here. They are leaving the sh'hole countries because the US is the greatest land of opportunity, where they …

(sorry, cannot keep that up, have to go barf now)



Did he establish those policies? Because, I went to school with Ben Linder, who was murdered by Reagan for trying to help rural Nicaraguans. That was a long time ago, and there has been continuous ***** around on the isthmus since then. Did Obama change something? More importantly, if he had done good things in Central America, would Individual-1 have not made a big deal about reversing those policies, because, Obama?
By law the US cannot send weapons or support to militaries that are involved in a coup, Clinton as SoS waived that aside in Honduras (I believe this was 2009 or so) and Obama signed off on it. It’s not a matter of continuing policy, it was an overt decision to support the government formed by the military coup that ousted the leader of the country at the time.
 

Sydde

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By law the US cannot send weapons or support to militaries that are involved in a coup, Clinton as SoS waived that aside in Honduras (I believe this was 2009 or so) and Obama signed off on it. It’s not a matter of continuing policy, it was an overt decision to support the government formed by the military coup that ousted the leader of the country at the time.
Nonetheless, legal or not, destabilizing C.A. and the Carribean has been SOP for around 6 decades. Obama and Clinton were following the standard. Not sure what else you would expect from a guy who was microscopically to the left of Reagan.
 
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Zenithal

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Sep 10, 2009
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Ideally, you'll want to go back to the second world war and go from there. Today's immigration problem is a nearly 100 year old problem.