Illinois Deep in Debt, Doesn't Pay Bills

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by ucfgrad93, May 13, 2010.

  1. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #1
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37136518/ns/us_news-life//

    It is just going to get worse if local & state governments (Federal government as well) can't get their spending under control.
     
  2. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #2
    And this...

    cbsnews
     
  3. ClassicII macrumors 6502

    ClassicII

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  4. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #4
    Raise taxes.

    From the Christian Science Monitor...

    Best move for cash-strapped states? Raise progressive taxes.

    All but a handful of states have seen their revenues plunge since the great recession hit like a tsunami in 2008. State lawmakers have repeatedly slashed their budgets to address the massive shortfalls. But cutting to get out of fiscal crisis is tantamount to digging to get out of a crater.

    Budget cuts deepen the recession and stifle recovery by immediately putting people out of work, reducing public and private investment, and abandoning residents in their hour of need. The long-term economic consequences are also damaging, including lost productivity, a less-skilled workforce, and reduced competitiveness.

    The key to the twin goals of budget repair and economic recovery is significantly increasing progressive taxes.
     
  5. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #5
    This will be repeated in just about every large state. The answer is a combination of painful spending cuts and painful tax rises.
     
  6. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

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    #6
    With the exception of the crime,,,, sounds like California.
     
  7. ucfgrad93 thread starter macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #7
    Agreed. It has to be both spending cuts and tax increases.:(
     
  8. Cursor macrumors 6502

    Cursor

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    #8
    You can't raise taxes on a population that is out of work. It'll just make things worse. Illinois has a unemployment rate of 11.7%, probably much higher when you factor in long-term unemployed and people that took temporary part-time jobs. The state problem, as is many states's problems is that they are getting lower tax revenue, because so many people are unemployed. How would an out-of-work person keep up with higher taxes? It would cause massive revolts along the lines of Greece, and probably worse.

    The answer is to cut all the crap out of state budgets, move illegals off of health-care, prison and benefit packages and start generating jobs.

    When times were booming (artificially), states increased their budgets massively. Well, now that a bust has happened, states need to reign it all back in. Increasing taxes is not the answer.
     
  9. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #9
    And all that we need to do to solve world hunger is make sure everyone gets enough food. As always, the devil is in the details. ;)

    For example, many believe that the passage of CA's Prop 13 back in the 70's is what paved the way for many of the state's short comings today by limiting property taxes and requiring a 2/3 majority in both legislative houses to up taxes at the state level. And due to other Prop's in CA some programs are basically guaranteed X amount of money each year, as I understand it, which means that lawmakers are severely handcuffed when trying to balance the budget.


    Lethal
     
  10. Cursor macrumors 6502

    Cursor

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    #10
    Doesn't Chicago have a gun ban law? How is it possible that people are getting killed by gun violence if there is a gun ban?

    Seriously, the thing that would help the most would be to strike down the ban. It would wipe out a lot of the violence almost overnight. The only thing gun ban laws do is take guns away from law-abiding citizens, and the gun-related violence in Chicago illustrates that.

    How do ordinary citizens protect themselves if the criminals have guns, but law-abiding citizens don't? The police aren't the answer, because cops can't be on the scene instantly and almost never are.
     
  11. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

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    Jan 6, 2004
    #11
    the gun violence in chicago is due, in large part, to gang violence. and while bystanders are often times victims, i don't see how allowing MORE guns will solve the issue. the police are spread thin and can only do so much.

    about the IL budget. our current Gov., who i don't have a lot of love for, has said that he wants to raise the income tax to help pay for the programs. while it is a burden, it is something that i do think needs to be done. but as others have pointed out, a lot of this has to do with the high unemployment rate. in reality, this state is ****ing corrupt, and nothing will change as the politicians continue to line their pockets. the amount of money some of these people make while doing nothing at all is astounding. the IL government needs to cut out the fat.
     
  12. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #12
    Exactly, but most improtantly, rooting out corruption. That is our biggest problem.

    This cracks me up. Any violent crime that occurs happens in isolated areas that most people never even go to. It's not as if the whole city is some bloodbath. And that whole national guard thing was Daley being the dramatic wanna-be king he is- and more likely a reaction to Chicago's stupid gun ban being federally challenged.

    Sorry- he's right. When guns are illegal, the only people who will have them are criminals. And criminals can be assured that no one will be able to resist them because law-abiding citizens won't have any. It's literally like shooting fish in a barrel. Gun bans, like the drug war, DO NOT WORK. They only make criminals' lives easier.
     
  13. SactoGuy18 macrumors 68030

    SactoGuy18

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    #13
    In the end, the solution may have to come down to this:

    [​IMG]

    And no, I'm not kidding, either.

    Between:

    1) Spending US$350 BILLION per year in income tax compliance costs.
    2) Americans putting nearly US$2 TRILLION into the illegal cash-only underground economy as an income tax avoidance measure.
    3) Americans sending nearly US$13 TRILLION in liquid assets to offshore financial centers beyond US borders as an income tax avoidance measure.
    4) American businesses outsourcing millions of jobs as an income tax avoidance measure.

    Small wonder why we are in such bad economic shape. We need to MASSIVELY overhaul or even do away with our income tax system (including repealing the 16th Amendment to the US Constitution) so it encourages American citizens and businesses to keep their savings, capital investments, and as many jobs in the USA as possible, mostly because we no longer tax the process of earning money. And that's what the FairTax proposal (it's an actual bill in Congress--H.R. 25/S. 296) will do.

    Can you imagine what would happen to the US economy if we can bring back US$15 trillion in liquid assets to the legal US financial system, no longer spend US$350 billion per year to comply with income tax laws, and bring back millions and millions of outsourced jobs?

    The problems with see in state governments (as noted by the problems in Illinois originally mentioned) and the Federal government in general is caused by Americans no longer investing in the USA because of the very existence of the current income tax structure. Drastically simplifying it or doing away with it altogether will go a LONG way in real economic recovery in the long run.
     
  14. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    Chicago, Illinois
    #14
    1. Agreed that the tax system needs to be simplified
    2. That's illegal and should be prosecuted
    3. Again- that should be illegal, and also an example of why "trickle down" doesn't work.
    4. Come on. The reason jobs are outsourced is cheap labor, nothing more. We have one of the lowest tax rates in the world. What makes us unable to compete is mainly that our benefits structure is screwed up. The cost of health care benefits alone is killing our corporations and causing more outsourcing than taxes ever could.
     
  15. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #15
  16. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #16
  17. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    Illinois
    #17
    Illinois has slashed from its government programs. Not a little, a lot. The number of employees has dropped drastically. I worked here at the end of the Ryan administration, and the comparison of staff from then to now is about 60-70% (just a guess). Cutting spending has gotten us here, but now it is probably time for the State to bite the bullet and raise taxes.

    As for whether that will hurt the economy, I point you to historical evidence that shows that when a progressive tax rate is increased, jobs are created and the economy increases. (I linked to this in another thread).

    I wish you were. Sigh, here we go again.

    The fair tax proposal, in the form proposed for this country, is massively unfair, and massively regressive in nature. In Europe, where there are similar taxes (VAT, etc.), that regressive nature is offset by the huge amount of services provided by the government for the poor (see socialist health care).

    Where does that $15 trillion come from? $350 Billion? Where does that number come from? If you merely simplified the tax code and eliminated special interest tax breaks for the wealthy, you would save a huge amount too, and raise a huge amount as well.

    I agree, we should go back to the way the tax code was a long time ago. Eliminate most or all of the deductions that are given to corporations, businesses, partnerships, and the wealthy. Eliminate the differentiation of different types of income: dividend = long term capital gain = inheiritence = gift = ordinary income. Oh, and go back to a much more progressive structure like we had for most of our history.
     
  18. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #18
    It's like that with any big city unfortunately. A small area has a ton of crime, and the entire city gets a bad rap because of it. Statistically, St. Louis is one of the most dangerous cities in the country because of crime, but almost all the crime takes place in areas where, in my 24 years living here, I have never found a reason to go anywhere near, and I guarantee you anyone visiting the city has no reason to go to those areas either. And not once have I ever felt my life was in danger.
     
  19. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #19
    You think the gun ban added to the gang violence?
     
  20. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    Chicago, Illinois
    #20
    It certainly has not helped.
     
  21. abijnk macrumors 68040

    abijnk

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    #21
    I just hope my mom doesn't lose her job. She works for the state, and my step-dad can't work in a strenuous job (due to health reasons), so they would be completely screwed. It's bad enough that she doesn't know month to month whether or not she will actually get a pay check for the work she is doing.
     
  22. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    Illinois
    #22
    You must not have been the Neon Disaster that is the Hollywood club.
     
  23. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #23
    No, I tend to avoid the east side ;)
     
  24. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    Chicago, Illinois
    #24
    Metra says chief improperly took $475,000 in vacation pay

    This is the kind of corruption we're dealing with. Stories like this appear almost daily here. This is why we're in trouble- extreme corruption.

    http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/05/metra-to-get-report-on-pagano-probe.html
     
  25. barkomatic macrumors 68040

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    Manhattan
    #25

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