"I'm gay" doesn't help man convicted of hate crime manslaughter

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by nbs2, Oct 12, 2007.

  1. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #1
    Guy was convicted of manslaughter as a hate crime, and tried to avoid the hate crime by claiming to be gay. It didn't work.

    It's interesting that hatred for a group is not essential - just targeting someone because they are in the group. That seems to be overbroad. I mean, many victims of crime are targeted because they fit the profile of what the perpetrator is looking for. I'm actually impressed that they had the brains to look where they did. I'd imagine that the folks on the "looking for sex partner" sites are pretty easy to lure, I imagine that men are easier to lure out than women, and it's easier to play a guy than a woman if you are a guy. So, hitting the site they did meant that they did a good job finding a victim to rob.

    Now, if they could show that the attack was because the guy was gay, that's a whole other story...
     
  2. joeconvert macrumors 6502

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    #2
    It would be?

    A crime is a crime. "Hate crimes" having stiffer penalties is just as sick as the higher jail terms for crack over your standard cocaine.

    I seriously don't understand most people in this country. One side of their mouth people decry racism and bigotry and the other side demands policy that is focused on our differences.
     
  3. Cromulent macrumors 603

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    #3
    Does that mean everytime you shout at a black person you are being racist? Everytime you get in a fight with gay guy you are being homophobic? What happened to just not liking individuals.

    It seems to me that this grouping of people under broad headers just increases racism and the like rather than the opposite. People should be treated like individuals not as a black guy or a gay guy or whatever group the law seems to pigeon hole you with.
     
  4. twoodcc macrumors P6

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  5. budpam macrumors member

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    #5

    Well said.:D
     
  6. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #6
    No, I think there is a difference...a hate crime would be "I'm killing you because your gay" vs a normal crime "I'm killing you because you owe me money(....and your gay? well I still want my money!)"

    Of course its not always that black and white......
     
  7. joeconvert macrumors 6502

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    #7
    I almost never come to this part of the site, but having commented earlier on this topic, I must know. Were you just attempting to clear up the definition of a hate crime or are you endorsing the idea of them being on the books?
     
  8. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #8
    That's why I respect South Park and the late Bernard Manning actually. They/He joke about everything, including their own race and religion. Racism and "Hate" problems begin when one race or religion or anything that can discriminate is put above or below others.

    Maybe a bit off topic, but still.
     
  9. MongoTheGeek macrumors 68040

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    #9
    Well the prosecution changes the hate crime law from a thoughtcrime law to something akin to the endangered species act. (Then again is this baiting?)

    Would it be a hate crime if you put a sign saying "Free Fried Chicken and Watermelons" and then mugged who ever showed up?
     
  10. Dustman macrumors 65816

    Dustman

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    #10
    That actually irritates me that someone would just say their "gay" just to try and get a murder charge dropped.
     
  11. joeconvert macrumors 6502

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    #11
    He didn't. Used it to avoid the Hate Crime designation - RTFA.
     
  12. Cromulent macrumors 603

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    #12
    As noted above the article is very clear. He had a couple of men testify that they had one night stands with him.
     
  13. gnasher729 macrumors P6

    gnasher729

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    #13
    But that is exactly the point. If a small part of the population is specifically targeted, then that part of the population would have an unacceptably high risk of being a crime victim, for no good reason at all, and without possibility of avoiding that risk. Therefore, the punishment for such crimes must be higher to protect such a minority.
     
  14. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #14
    I'm sorry, but this is yet another thread that is PRSI-bound... it's inevitable, I'm afraid.
     
  15. joeconvert macrumors 6502

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    #15
    So then other crimes have a good reason? I don't like that you have an ipod, so I take it from you at gun point.

    So, really rape is a hate crime? - Generally targeted at women. Indeed I think hate generally plays a part, but the hate is not the crime. Your reasoning is completely flawed, but very indicative of the illogical way our society attempts to deal with large populations of diverse individuals living in close proximity.

    If we look at this case and take a larger look, the entire incident could have been avoided if it not for our wrong approach to drug criminalization.

    But I guess some pigs are more equal than others......
     
  16. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

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    #16
    Taking a criminal's state of mind into account is standard operating procedure. It's how we differetiate degrees of murder, for instance.

    If the only variable in play for the legal system is the outcome, vehicluar manslaughter and aggravated first degree murder should carry the same penalty.
     
  17. joeconvert macrumors 6502

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    #17
    Nice try. Oh, by the way, I think you meant "differentiate" and "vehicular".

    If I am cleaning a gun, and I accidentally shoot and kill you, generally speaking, the law would look at this as manslaughter. If I come over to your house because you abused my sister and we had a verbal argument resulting in your death, it could go either way. If I clearly plan to come to your home, workplace or other location and intend to end your life, it is murder (depending on what the prosecution can prove will depend on whether or not it is premeditated.) The color of one's skin, sexual orientation or creed should not come into bearing.

    Misguided people like you are why this country, and many others, have never achieved harmony. You are no better than a member of the KKK, average racist or atheist hating member of the Christian Right (or wrong depending on your outlook).

    Justice should be blind, one life is not worth more than another. Hate crimes are a recent invention of a failing civilization. You can take your Law and Order/CSI/crappy cop drama mentality and stow it. They way you worded your post makes you sound a bit like a lawyer... if so I can only hope for you eventual disbarment.
     
  18. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #18
    Supporting the idea that they exist...and I guess it pointed out the difference, but that wasn't the point
     
  19. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

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    #19
    Oh, I don't use spellcheck and was typing like a slob. You're ****ing brilliant! You win the argument! I give up!
     
  20. joeconvert macrumors 6502

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    #20
    I'll excuse that since you are a from a non-free state.


    Crimes have only been motivated by 2 things in the history of man, hate and greed.

    This is nothing new. Why we think we suddenly need to differentiate this in the legal system - since premeditated murder is already illegal is beyond me (An exmaple, I know this was not addressed in the OP's article link).

    This is as stupid as those that support laws against texting and driving. reckless driving is already illegal.
     
  21. joeconvert macrumors 6502

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    #21
    Didn't like your tone.

    Thanks for not addressing the actual points. I guess based upon your avatar, I should report for political reeducation.
     
  22. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

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    #22
    No, but one crime can be worse than another. Again I'll point out that the outcome of an event is not the determining factor for meting out justice.

    And since we take someone's state of mind into account when calculating the severity of crime, why can't we factor in something like hate?
     
  23. joeconvert macrumors 6502

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    #23
    B/c hating is not illegal. And if you really believe in your heart it is, welcome to thought crime. Love to hear your views on 'ol W.
     
  24. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

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    #24
    Well **** me, I guess I don't like being compared to Klan members. Imagine that.
     
  25. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

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    #25
    Wanting to kill someone isn't illegal either. But if I go ahead and do kill someone, and the court can determine that I wanted to do it, the punishment is more severe. Keep 'em coming.
     

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