I'm not sayin' ... I'm just sayin'

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by citizenzen, Jul 22, 2011.

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  1. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #1
    What is it with the righty-tighties these days?


    At Least 80 Are Dead in Norway Shooting

    After the shooting the police seized a 32-year-old Norwegian man on the island, according to the police and Justice Minister Knut Storberget. He was later identified as Anders Behring Breivik and was characterized by officials as a right-wing extremist.
     
  2. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #2
    Although it is too early to say I'd wager this had less to do ideology and more to do with mental health problems. Let's leave the culture wars out of such horrific events. Thoughts are with you Norway.
     
  3. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #3
    That's very diplomatic of you.

    Pardon me for being a little less so.
     
  4. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #4
    All us "right wing extremists" usually all hang together and have completely aligned ideologies-- even in Oslo. Because we're all one monolithic group which you should fear.
     
  5. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #5
    I hear all the bullets were forged in the blood of Sarah Palin and inscribed with wisdom from Atlas Shrugged. When will those right wingers learn?!
     
  6. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #6
    No. That's not it.

    You don't need to form groups in order to unleash this destructive force.

    But there's something in this notion of authoritarian, gun-loving, anti-social mind-set that leads to outbursts like this.
     
  7. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #7
    Honestly, I'm a bit saddened you've stooped to such a level.

    Can't we just agree that the world needs less extremists, regardless of what side, seeing as both sides produce them?

    Edit: And a LOL @ Obeygiant's comment, whom I can still remember talking about how pathetic it was that the Dems "supermajority" wasn't getting enough done and simply shrugged off my comments that Dems aren't a monolithic entity. Guess it makes sense when you can apply it to your own ideology. Though I'd never consider you an extremist as you sarcastically did.
     
  8. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #8
    Fewer extremists.

    Fewer guns.

    A greater understanding of the need for liberal social politics.

    I can agree with that.
     
  9. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #9
    Let it be understood that (little L) liberal isn't the same thing as "Liberals" for anyone not concerned enough to learn the difference. Wouldn't want anyone hurting their knees ;)
     
  10. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #10
    What an awful day for Norway. Tomorrow when I wake up I'm sure they'll have a definite body count and i can't help but think that a lot of them will be young people and that's really hard to accept. I can't help but think of all those parents who had just one child and now have none.

    There have certainly been left wing extremists and they've certainly been responsible for a lot of deaths, but this is impossible to fathom. Targeting and killing children is cowardly.

    My heart goes out to all those who have suffered today.
     
  11. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    Yes, there have been.

    And I do realize how unfair it is to tar an entire political wing with the acts of one man.

    But right now, I'm not feeling very fair.

    If we find out that this guy was some gun-loving, xenophobic, anti-liberal nutcase, people will want to focus solely on the "nutcase" part. I'd like to suggest that those other components play a role in this too.

    When you hate and fear other people, when you don't value the role that society plays in our lives, and when you arm yourself beyond any reasonable measure of "self-defense", you are just one cracked nut away from another massacre.

    We need to de-escalate our personal arms race, value our social order and embrace tolerance of other cultures, religions and races. As our world continues to shrink and we find ourselves having to share more of it, we need to become more liberal in our attitudes: more tolerant, more peaceful, more cooperative. Or else we are just going to destroy ourselves.

    I'll try to embrace those ideals more myself.

    And conservatives? Get rid of the guns and try to embrace those ideals too.
     
  12. KingCrimson macrumors 65816

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    The answer to incidents such as this is to completely disarm the population so they can go to their slaughter with even greater ease next time. Thanks liberals.
     
  13. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #13
    And the culture wars nonsense continues. How about you two trade PMs in private instead of dragging the forum down trying to win ideological points over warm corpses. You're just as bad as each other.
     
  14. KingCrimson macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Just because you hate the culture wars won't make them go away. I fear with liberals going collectively insane and using any pretext a hot civil war is inevitable within 5-10 years.
     
  15. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #15
    You are incorrect. Culture war trolls go away very quickly. If there's one thing they lack it is attention span. Once they run out of talking points they have been fed by politicians and the media it is all over.

    Again if you want to try and win vacuous ideological points over the lives of children's corpses it says more about yourself and citizenzen's complete lack of perspective and respect. It is flatly disgusting.
     
  16. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #16
    Hmmm ... Just who is trying to score points over children's corpses here?

    If you're so disgusted, then by all means feel free to leave the discussion.

    If all you have to contribute is to tell us how much we disgust you, then bravo, you scored your points.
     
  17. Heilage macrumors 68030

    Heilage

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    #17
    In the big picture, it doesn't matter that this bastard was a right-wing extremist. What he did was so awful, evil and sadistic it transcends stupid little things like political labels.
     
  18. .Andy, Jul 23, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2011

    .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #18
    Indeed. It transcends them completely.
     
  19. torbjoern macrumors 65816

    torbjoern

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    #19
    Certainly. Something is fundamentally wrong in society, and July 22nd will forever be the day when Norway lost her innocence.
     
  20. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #20
    I'm betting you're wrong.

    I'll bet that within a very short period of time, Anders Behring Breivik's political views will be revealed to be a substantial part of his motivation and no more transcendent than when Timothy McVeigh detonated a truck bomb in front of the Alfred P. Murrah Building in Oklahoma City.
     
  21. torbjoern macrumors 65816

    torbjoern

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    #21
    These traits can be applied to certain other people than just the right-wings. Some of them are under the patronage of liberals like yourself, so you probably don't want to know who I'm talking about.
     
  22. Heilage macrumors 68030

    Heilage

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  23. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #23

    Disgusted with your post. Must suck to live in a world where everything is either red or blue.
     
  24. torbjoern macrumors 65816

    torbjoern

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    #24
    Interesting that you mention it. I just got reminded now that a few days ago, I dreamt that I met Charles Whitman in person. :eek: No kidding!
     
  25. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #25
    Well try to choke down that bit of vomit that has crept into your throat and feel free to discuss the issue.

    If you care to scratch the surface you'll find that I don't believe all conservatives are mass murderers. But I do understand the appeal of outrage, so feel free to indulge in it a bit.

    Anyway ... :rolleyes:

    In the 1960s and 70s radical politically-motivated violence often came from the left: Charles Manson, the Symbionese Liberation Army, Baader-Meinhof and others. In those days it was the left that was trying to shake off the societal status quo and engaged in rhetoric, extolled "revolution" and gave license for those more radical elements to act out violently against those they saw as "the oppressor".

    Today, it largely seems to be the radical right the is driven to take up arms in a misguided effort to send a political message.

    Remember the FAUX outrage over the report from the U.S. Homeland Security Department and the F.B.I. that came out in 2009? Let me refresh your memory. While this report focuses on the United States, many of the findings could easily apply to other countries as well. Excerpt below [source] ...


    Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment


    Key Findings

    Threats from white supremacist and violent antigovernment groups during 2009 have been largely rhetorical and have not indicated plans to carry out violent acts. Nevertheless, the consequences of a prolonged economic downturn—including real estate foreclosures, unemployment, and an inability to obtain credit—could create a fertile recruiting environment for rightwing extremists and even result in confrontations between such groups and government authorities similar to those in the past.

    The current economic and political climate has some similarities to the 1990s when rightwing extremism experienced a resurgence fueled largely by an economic recession, criticism about the outsourcing of jobs, and the perceived threat to U.S. power and sovereignty by other foreign powers.

    During the 1990s, these issues contributed to the growth in the number of domestic rightwing terrorist and extremist groups and an increase in violent acts targeting government facilities, law enforcement officers, banks, and infrastructure sectors.


    Outlook

    DHS/I&A assesses that the combination of environmental factors that echo the 1990s, including heightened interest in legislation for tighter firearms restrictions and returning military veterans, as well as several new trends, including an uncertain economy and a perceived rising influence of other countries, may be invigorating rightwing extremist activity, specifically the white supremacist and militia movements. To the extent that these factors persist, rightwing extremism is likely to grow in strength.

    Unlike the earlier period, the advent of the Internet and other information- age technologies since the 1990s has given domestic extremists greater access to information related to bomb-making, weapons training, and tactics, as well as targeting of individuals, organizations, and facilities, potentially making extremist individuals and groups more dangerous and the consequences of their violence more severe. New technologies also permit domestic extremists to send and receive encrypted communications and to network with other extremists throughout the country and abroad, making it much more difficult for law enforcement to deter, prevent, or preempt a violent extremist attack.


    But better you be disgusted by the mere mention of it. :rolleyes:

    Unlike many here in PRSI who have implied that all of Islam is to be blamed for the acts of the radical few, I am not likewise tarring every conservative. I am pointing out a trend that has been going on for years now.

    Sorry to disturb some of you with that news.
     
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