Immigration proposal

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Zombie Acorn, Dec 7, 2016.

  1. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #1
    I'm wondering if Trump could negotiate a deal with the left as follows:

    1) Secure the border

    2) Federal forfeiture of entire business and jail time if caught knowingly hiring an illegal.

    3) Grant amnesty in the form of a PR card to any law abiding (with the exception of being here illegally) illegals currently in the system

    4) Immediate deportation of any illegals with any type of criminal record.
     
  2. kobalap macrumors 6502

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    #2
    Some questions:
    • What does it mean to secure the border? And exactly how do you secure the border from people who travel here legally and then overstay?
    • Are there any illegals that are here legally?
    • Don't we already deport illegals with criminal records just to have them come back?
    Personally, I would rather have corporal punishment. Here illegally, you get the stick and then get deported. Commit a crime, get stick plus jail time.
     
  3. Zombie Acorn thread starter macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #3
    1) Immediate deportation for anyone crossing illegally, sanctions on Mexico if they allow hordes of people to move through their country to wind up on our border. Also illegals won't come here if they know they won't be able to work, and business owners won't risk forfeiting their business to hire them.

    2) illegals without any other criminal history could be permitted to stay on PR status, there should be some restrictions similar to other countries ie. no living on the government dole etc.

    3) Border enforcement would have to be heightened and Trump is surely going to pursue that already.
     
  4. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #4
    My prediction based on his M.O. is that he will counter his shock and awe initial preso with a softer more open "agreement" brining both sides together or close and thus secure a win. Many think he'll continue to be a hard azz but I don't think so. He's after the win and will find it eventually. Then he'll tick everyone on the left off by taking 200% credit :p
     
  5. kobalap, Dec 7, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016

    kobalap macrumors 6502

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    #5
    Are you proposing to dump a whole bunch of money into ICE? They don't barely have enough money to deport criminals let alone deport everybody.

    And when you say, no government dole, what are you referring to? No emergency healthcare for illegals? If so, are you talking about repealing EMTALA? Because illegals do not qualify for welfare. And if you are to take away whatever benefits illegals do get, do you propose to keep the taxes that the government collects from illegals?

    To be clear, I am no champion of the illegal immigrant. I think that EMTALA being applicable to illegals is one giant reason we have illegals flocking to the US (and birthing anchor babies to boot). To participate in this discussion with any level of intelligence, I need to understand what you are referring to and need to look up some of the pertinent facts (and not the Newsmax or Breitbart version of "facts").
     
  6. Zombie Acorn thread starter macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #6
    Currently when someone is apprehended on the border they are given some sort of trial date and then released. I'm saying Immediate forceful deportation when caught crossing at the border.

    I am working under the hypothetical that we grant illegals PR status, thus not making them "illegal", however restrict the ability to apply for welfare, food stamps, subsidized housing and other government welfare programs.

    The emergency room issues with illegals isn't something I've thought about much, there's not much you can do in those cases unless you are willing to let someone bleed out of the hospital steps.
     
  7. kobalap macrumors 6502

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    #7
    Well, the trial date thing, is that to do with due process?

    With regards to welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, illegals do not qualify. You have to provide documentation of legal immigration to collect on any of those programs. And even legal immigrants now have to wait 5 years before they can collect.

    My guess is that the 2 biggest costs we incur due to illegals is the EMTALA thing and then the anchor baby thing. With regards to EMTALA, i say let 'em bleed out. Don't come to the US looking for any kind of charity. With regards to the anchor baby thing, that would require an amendment to the constitution. And assuming that the reason illegals get a trial date before getting deported is because of due process, "deport them right away" thing would also require an amendment to the constitution.
     
  8. shinji macrumors 65816

    shinji

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    #8
    :rolleyes:
     
  9. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

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    #9
    Those are very non-specific ideas that would have to be worked out... as others have alluded to.

    I think illegal immigration to stop. If you want to come to the US the legal route, excellent, but skipping the line is not acceptable. I would think it's fair to offer some form of amnesty to those already here in return for not allowing any future amnesty. Some form of social benefit is necessary, but is not sustainable if you don't stop the influx. Then it's only acting as an incentive for more to come which isn't fair to the many Americans already in need of government aid.

    As for crimes, I'm not sure I would allow any and every crime. Everybody makes mistakes. Many of these people live in poverty and that's where most crime exists. I'd suggest a strike system and utilize probation system. Perhaps different crimes would be weighted differently. Once the strike limit is reached, you will be deported. For crimes committed prior to the system, perhaps add up the score and anything above 3 gets 1 more strike. Anything above 5 and you're deported as soon as the system is in effect. You could also have what I call a "DEFCON" system, where the more crimes in a short amount of time is worse as crimes committed years and years apart.

    I believe people make mistakes and have the ability to change. I don't want families torn apart for a single mistake. For those that do screw up they should be offered the opportunity demonstrate change. That is what is most important in my mind. Those who cannot demonstrate their value as a productive resident can be shown the door.
     
  10. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #10
    I would prefer that we hermetically seal Canada. It seems to produce things that I dislike, such as Justin Bieber, Justin Trudeau, and Bryan Adams. On the other hand, I like tacos (in remembrance of jkcerda).
     
  11. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #11
    No amnesty period.
    So basically immediate deportation of illegals?
    --- Post Merged, Dec 8, 2016 ---
    You forgot Celine Dion.
     
  12. R.Perez macrumors 6502

    R.Perez

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    #12
    You want to refuse medical care and let someone die based on their immigration status? What a disgusting and dangerous vision for the US.
     
  13. kobalap macrumors 6502

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    #13
    Shrug.

    Pennsylvania voted for Trump.
    They sent a Republican to the Senate.
    They sent 13 Republicans out of 18 available seats to the House of Representatives.

    For Republicans, access to health care is not a right. The Republican vision is that everyone needs to be responsible for their own health care. And that each individual should have a right not to sign up for health care should they choose not to. How would you and your fellow Pennsylvanians square that with EMTALA? All that does is shift the burden of cost of healthcare from illegal immigrants to Americans.

    You want a system that is compassionate to illegal immigrants yet your state votes in people who don't want illegals in this country (and rightfully so). You want a system that is compassionate to illegal immigrants yet you vote in people who want to dismantle the only thing we have close to universal health care. You vote in people who have done everything they could to undermine universal healthcare that would benefit not only illegals but also people living in abject poverty - an incredibly large percentage of whom are children.

    You can judge the vision any way you want. But honestly, you and your fellow Pennsylvanians are the ones who continue to vote for this vision.
     
  14. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #14
    We've spent $106 Billion on boarder security from 2008-2013, why do we have to continue to misuse resources that would be much better used on schools, hospitals, and infrastructure? It's an obscene amount of money for a boogeyman purpose.
     
  15. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #15
    How many billions wasted on illegals from any country have been wasted? That money could have went to schools, hospitals and infrastructure.
     
  16. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

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  17. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

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    #17
    So would you nationalize the business or would you just shut it down? I don't really want the federal government involved in the day to day running of businesses, but if you shut them down then you risk shutting down a large portion of the production chain for our food. That doesn't seem like a good option either.
     
  18. R.Perez macrumors 6502

    R.Perez

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    #18
    I want a medical and healthcare system that values human beings and human life. Amazing that the predominantly pro-life party doesn't give two ***** about actual fully grown adults, only zygotes and embryos.
     
  19. yaxomoxay macrumors 68020

    yaxomoxay

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    #19
    No. If you break into the house, you don't get adopted. Period. No PR status, nor anything else. What I am willing to give is forgiveness for the purposes of immigration if you haven't committed any crime, that is you can go back to your country and file for immigration without any consequence for your previous illegal status. As for the restrictions you talk about, PR already have those and your sponsor (be either spouse or company) have to guarantee for you.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 8, 2016 ---
    I don't think he was talking about life threatening situations. He was talking about regular doctor visits etc.
    If I am wrong and he included life threatening situations, I am with you; no one should be left to die.
     
  20. R.Perez macrumors 6502

    R.Perez

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    #20
    It cost $15,000 US dollars and 3 years form my father to be able to bring my Grandma into the country legally, and she was retired and not hoping for a work visa. Immigration only for the rich eh? Where you gonna find folks that will pick tomatoes and strawberries in scorching heat for minimum wage or less?
    --- Post Merged, Dec 8, 2016 ---
    He was indeed and doubled down it. The thread he was responding asked if people should be left to die bleeding on the hospital steps and he said yes. Try calling out your fellow cons for a change.
     
  21. yaxomoxay macrumors 68020

    yaxomoxay

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    #21
    You're switching lanes, and with the wrong person. First of all, we're talking about illegal immigration, a subset of immigration. I am one of the most vocal MR users that wants reform of our immigration system. Heck, I wanted reform since the first day I stepped into this country. That doesn't mean that because legal immigration has to be fixed then illegal immigration is fine. It's not. We have to fix legal immigration, and make sure that it works. Then, and only then we can expand immigration.

    I just said that I disagree with him, and my position is well known here. What do you want me to do, send him to the moon?
     
  22. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

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    #22
    Seems a bit high. Should be less than $500.00 at most.
     
  23. yaxomoxay macrumors 68020

    yaxomoxay

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    #23
    Lawyer's fee etc it can get quite high. I spent a few $K myself.
     
  24. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

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    #24
    A lawyer is not a requirement to apply for a Visa. Obviously it has advantages though. Travel expenses or other miscellaneous costs is not reimbursed by the U.S. and is the responsibility of person wanting immigration status.
     
  25. yaxomoxay macrumors 68020

    yaxomoxay

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    #25
    We're not talking about visa, we're talking about being a permanent resident which is a much more tangled process.
    And good luck attempting to get a green card without a lawyer. You can do it, exactly as you can represent yourself in front of the Supreme Court...
     

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