Immigration Reform

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jav6454, Feb 21, 2013.

  1. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #1
    It's a miracle I haven't seen any thread regarding this issue. What do you think? Obama is offering a clear citizen path towards immigrants with S.T.E.M. degrees obtained here in the US. However, illegals have an extra challenge to prove they've behaved good and have paid taxes.

    What can be done to solve this? Are you open to people with S.T.E.M. degrees?

    Full disclosure, I am one of those trying to stay within the US legally. I do have a S.T.E.M. degree and want to have the chance to do my Masters eventually, but not rushed since my status will expire.


    For wonders... S.T.E.M. is Science, Technology, Engineering and Medicine.
     
  2. xShane macrumors 6502a

    xShane

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    #2
    America has always been an immigrant nation. I don't see why people want to block immigrants from moving in. As long as they want to follow a legal route and pursue a better life (i.e. get an education/degree), then it's going to be good for our economy.
     
  3. jav6454 thread starter macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #3
    Well, currently, it goes like this. Literally what I'm going thru...

    1. Apply for US college (public in this case, which means Federal $$; ie, taxpayer $$)

    2. Get full scholarship

    3. Study 4 years ($100k given to me in taxpayer $$)

    4. Start OPT (Optional Training Program)

    5. Time-up getting kicked out after the US Taxpayer spent $100k and a US company spent resources to train.

    (Yes, the company did ask for me, but apparently the government thinks they should hire US labor)

    Number of classmates in graduating class that were US Citizens: 1 of 20 (Electric Engineering)
     
  4. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #4
    The problem with elevating one class of immigrants over another inevitably leads to a shortage of educated people in 3rd works countries where such people are desperately needed.
     
  5. jav6454 thread starter macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #5
    I can tell you right away, no. At least from a Central American view point, no. People's, or rather society's view, is that the rich know what they are doing and the educated are just labor.
     
  6. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #6
    No arguments there. That said, we can't just open our borders and let anyone and everyone in. There has to be a limit, and our immigration laws should be followed by those who want to come here and enforced by our government.

    That said, I don't have a whole lot of tolerance for those that sneak across the border, overstay their visas, etc.
     
  7. jav6454 thread starter macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #7
    However, the current laws are the ones creating the mess the country is in terms of immigration. Wasting taxpayer money by training would be citizens and sending them back to their countries to compete against the nation that trained them. Illogical don't you think?
     
  8. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #8
    Trust me, I know how screwed up our immigration laws are. Just like our tax code, the best thing that could happen to our immigration laws would be to scrap them and start over.

    That said, even though the immigration laws are FUBAR, people who want to come here need to follow them.
     
  9. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #9
    Public universities don't receive as much public funding as you might think these days, so really its more other students paying for your education. :D
     
  10. jav6454 thread starter macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #10
    Not if your University gets $50M (or close) from Federal and State... lol. Yes, I am sure of that.
     
  11. iMikeT macrumors 68020

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    #11
    A nation founded by illegal immigrants then taking the land away from the natives needs to have a better way of dealing with new immigrants that try to seek a better life for themselves.
     
  12. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #12
    Perhaps you have a link to the law that was broken to make the actions illegal?

    All first world nations are hard to immigrate to.
     
  13. xShane macrumors 6502a

    xShane

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    #13
    I believe he was referring back to the days of the Colonies and then later on how we slaughtered anywhere between 50 to 100 million Native Americans (more people than Hitler and Stalin killed combined).
     
  14. hallux macrumors 68020

    hallux

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    #14
    I have no problem with the country opening the gates to those trying to immigrate legally.

    What I DO have a problem with are the people that come here illegally, take advantage of the systems in place, paid for by tax-paying US citizens, having their children here (allowing them to be here legally). I disagree with the government providing a path to citizenship for those that are currently here illegally.

    How about, instead of subsidizing educations (including EASL classes for young children) for those here illegally, we make higher education more affordable for those here legally?

    If you want to come here, learn the language most of the people here speak, ENGLISH. Some local municipalities were blocked from declaring an official language (English). Yes, many other countries start their students early with English classes but it seems to be the language spoken in international business so it's viewed as the single language needed to excel in the business world.

    I'm sick of the US catering to the people here illegally. I REALLY dislike political candidates changing immigration policy views just to get the "latino vote" (those here legally but complaining about potential policies that would block paths to leaglity for illegals).

    For the record, I'm not against more people coming here, I'm just against them doing so illegally and taking jobs that an out of work US citizen could take.
     
  15. xShane macrumors 6502a

    xShane

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    #15
    "Taking advantage of the systems in place" is a bit broad. Surely if they get hurt or injured and require health care we can't just let them suffer and/or die? Also, being born in the United States makes you a citizen right off the bat. That's not going to change. There's nothing wrong with an illegal having a child born here.

    If we don't provide a path for illegals to become legal, then they will never become legal. I don't see your reasoning here. They also have every right to speak their own language. In fact, schools should be teaching major languages (i.e. Spanish) at a *much* younger age instead of waiting until 14 or higher as is the current situation. We're bordered next to major Spanish-speaking areas. It works the same way in European countries. If a major French speaking area is next to a German speaking country, then French will be taught at a younger age and the German speakers will likely encounter French speakers.

    In certain areas, if you don't cater to Latinos, you will *not* get elected. Someone that does will come in and win. Bottom line.
     
  16. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #16
    That's not what I asked, he said it was illegal and so there must have been legislation somewhere outlining these behaviors that made it so. Provide the documents or drop the illegal terminology.
     
  17. xShane macrumors 6502a

    xShane

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    #17
    How genocide is illegal?
     
  18. hallux macrumors 68020

    hallux

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    #18
    I'm not arguing that this isn't the case, but this is EXACTLY what it is they're taking advantage of. However, now you have someone who walked across the border as she was in labor (or not too long before) just so her kid could be a US citizen. They've never paid a cent in US taxes or paid anything into any US social programs and she and the kid are going to live off those same social programs (how else will that medical care be paid for, or the housing?) for HOW LONG? Meanwhile, those of us that work 40 hours a week pay through the nose for taxes for those very programs.

    I'm not trying to have a lack of compassion, but I sometimes wonder if I would make more money if I WASN'T working. There's reform needed but it's not just in immigration.
     
  19. xShane macrumors 6502a

    xShane

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    #19
    If her and her kid want to be American, then they have every right to do so. You do realize by them living here that they will be paying taxes, right? Every purchase they make has taxes which goes towards themselves and others, including you. And what's to say the kid doesn't grow up and pursue his/her education seriously in order to have a good life? How do you know the illegal won't try to become legal?
     
  20. jav6454 thread starter macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #20

    There is more to do this. This is how it happens several times. Mom and Pop cross border illegally. Punch out a couple of kids which are now US Citizens. After the kids become 21 year olds they can request their parents legalization here in the US. In other words, having a kid and staying here 21 years is an investment for those who don't mind working and living illegally for 21 years.

    Now, I'm not saying its completely wrong, but, you got to wonder how well it works for some and backfires for many.

    The downside, many illegals abuse the system. Have gone as far as to ask Food Stamps, loans, etc... all on the good Social Security # of their kid when they didn't even need the help in the first place. One thing is to work the system to help yourself and another is to abuse it and live off the taxpayer.
     
  21. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #21
    On top of that, do we really need to pull up the laws/constitutions/treaties between the natives and the immigrants that came over off the boat?

    Do we really have to go into details such as the Dawes Commission, which had to give back land taken by Whites? Or the Indian Removal Act, which ran roughshod of already agreed homelands of the Amer. Indians before Whites kicked them off their land?

    The Hopewell Treaty of 1785, The aforementioned Indian Removal Act, and the Treaty of Echota, all were ran contrary against laws and agreements within and between the tribes, including those with established government, like the Iroquois.

    If you really have to ask for links to laws for it to contrast with US laws, you really are becoming ignorant of history.

    BL.
     
  22. iMikeT macrumors 68020

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    #22

    How about a United States history textbook?



    Yup, exactly what I was referring to. The colonists didn't have the proper papers from Native Americans when they landed their boat. Therefore, the colonists were in fact the first illegal immigrants to this country.



    What do you want to see, a Native American wall painting that depicts immigrants being unwelcome?



    Don't you mean to say how is genocide legal, not illegal?
     
  23. AhmedFaisal, Feb 22, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2013
  24. iMikeT, Feb 22, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013

    iMikeT macrumors 68020

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    #24
    I don't understand the dislike towards people who are deemed to be residing illegally in the United States of America especially when this country was founded by illegal immigrants. Are people afraid that "illegals" will take the land away from the United States just as the colonists did from the natives?

    Contrary from what most people believe, most people who are deemed "illegal" actually came into the United States legally through tourist visas, student visas, and work visas that expired and refusing to return to their home country, not by simply trotting over [mostly through] the US-Mexico border. It's not entirely that easy to cross the border through miles of desert by foot while Border Patrol agents have vehicles that can outrun a person and drones monitoring from the sky. On top of that, the ground patrols have M16s aimed at anyone trying walk across the border. Not easy taking another step forward at gunpoint.

    As far as "illegal" people receiving benefits, it's not as easy as most think. Citizens and permanent residents actually encounter difficulties when applying for benefits. For example, with the SNAP program, an applicant has to show they have near-zero assets and live well below the poverty line before being deemed eligible. And even if a person is deemed eligible, the benefit amount isn't even that much.

    Now for those that receive medical care, it is law in this country that anyone who shows up at an emergency room needing care cannot be turned away, regardless of immigration status. It was Republican president Ronald Reagan who signed that bill into law. By the way, it was also Reagan that granted "illegals" amnesty in the 1980's.

    If anyone abuses the system more than "illegals", it's CONservatives that hate these very programs but have no problem benefiting from it themselves. Yup, hide assets and appear poor on paper in order to can qualify for them gov'ment benefits. Of couuuurussseee!
     
  25. jav6454 thread starter macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #25
    The problem is, most US citizen college students want it the easy way out. In other words (no offense to anyone, but this is what happens in all colleges) many of the degrees being conferred upon graduates are in its majority Liberal Art degrees and Business degrees. These type of degrees are easy in terms of study and understanding; therefor, the vast majority of students select them.

    An engineering or medical degree require heavy studies habits and more time investment in order to graduate, hence they are popular with college freshmen.

    As such, when you have a country, whose student population graduates in a staggering 70% of non-STEM degrees, you get the current scenario in which non-US citizens are leading STEM degrees graduations.


    Example, (although one, this can be found in other universities or colleges) last Fall Semester graduation at the University of New Orleans, ~860 graduates (undergrads) were given degrees. Out of those, only 27 came from the College of Engineering and 6 out of those 27 were out of Electrical Engineering department. Of those 6, non... NOT ONE was a US citizen. Two were Ecuadorians, one Venezuelan, two Honduran, and one Indian. Staggering. No US citizens graduated as EEs.
     

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