In Desperate Need of Help Getting System 7 w/ my Color Classic

Discussion in 'Apple Collectors' started by vUndefined, Dec 7, 2013.

  1. vUndefined macrumors newbie

    vUndefined

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    #1
    Hello MacRumors Community -

    I went to the dump today and found someone that had thrown away a 1993 Macintosh Color Classic in the original carrying case with the keyboard and mouse. I took it home, booted it, and get shown a little flashing diskette drive with a '?' on it. From my current, if any, Mac knowledge, this either means that there's no hard drive or there's no operating system on the hard drive. So, I cracked it open and there is a functioning hard drive inside it, so it must just be missing an operating system.

    I did some handy-dandy research and found out that this runs System 7. My question is, first of all, where do I get a hold of this System 7? It's really old and the only 20 part files I've found require a version of Macintosh to already be installed.

    Where can I get a fresh install of System 7 that I can put onto floppies to directly boot into? As I can't even get past the flashing diskette symbol, I need something I can directly boot into to install System 7 from. I don't care how many parts it is as long as it will work.

    Thanks, and sorry for the oddball question, I'm not good with old Macs, especially those only equipped with a nice floppy diskette drive.

    If someone can get me a direct link to stuff I can put on floppies it'd be much appreciated.

    Cheers and wish me luck,

    ~Nick
     
  2. Intell macrumors P6

    Intell

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    #2
    You can download System 7 from Apple for free. It is on a bunch of floppy disc images. It will be able to boot from the first disk image on the set. That machine can also run Mac OS 7.5, of which you can also download the floppy images for free from Apple.
     
  3. vUndefined thread starter macrumors newbie

    vUndefined

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    #3
    Hey thanks for the reply!

    Anyway you can link me to either of the downloads? I couldn't find any of them (spent hours on Apple's website)

    Cheers!
     
  4. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #4
    The Color Classic was most likely originally fitted with a Quantum LPS drive.

    These particular drives suffer from a head park locking mechanism jam.

    A picture of the top of the drive (the metal plate, not the circuit board) will easily determine which drive it is.

    Alternatively, listen closely to the drive when you power on the machine. If it spins up, then spins down (it may repeat this a few times) then it's got the head park jam problem.

    If it has this problem, there are two options:

    1. replace the drive with another drive (preferably Apple badged) or

    2. open the existing drive and apply a tiny, tiny amount of thin lubricant to the head park actuator's spindle. - a highly questionable suggestion! :eek:

    ----------

    The Color Classic requires a minimum of System 7.1 with "System Enabler 401" so System 7.5.3 will be the one to get from Apple.
     
  5. vUndefined thread starter macrumors newbie

    vUndefined

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    #5
    Wow, thanks for the fast replies! I've went to the legacy download page on Apple's site. I found the 19 part .bin files, however, can I just put each of these on their own floppy and boot into 'em? Or is there a special way I need to conduct this?

    Cheers!
     
  6. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #6
    That all depends on what you have available that can write a floppy disk.

    Once you establish that, you may want to try making a floppy of the "Network Access Disk".

    It's usually used to install a System from a network share, BUT you can use it to boot the machine and see if the hard drive is there and if there is anything on it.

    Here it is, direct from Apple:

    http://download.info.apple.com/Appl...osh/Utilities/Network_Access_Disk_7.5.sea.bin
     
  7. vUndefined thread starter macrumors newbie

    vUndefined

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    #7
    And BTW, oh no.

    I started it up and I hear the hard drive rev up to full speed, then drop down. It does it again once more, then goes to the flashing diskette. Have I got the problem? :(

    EDIT: In reply to your above post, I have a floppy drive in my computer. (old, yes, I know)

    Can I just drag that file onto the floppy? What format does it have to be in?

    Thanks.
     
  8. MacTech68, Dec 7, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013

    MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #8
    Well, my first thought is "AAARRRGGGH". And my second though is, yes, you DO have the head park problem. There is another thread here which details what is wrong (with pictures). I'll try to find it and post back.

    EDIT: Here is the post:
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=17231700&postcount=3

    Regarding the floppy disk creation, what kind of computer is your OTHER computer? What system is it? MacOS X, MacOS 8,9 etc - Windows, XP, Vista, 98, etc etc - is it a USB floppy?
     
  9. vUndefined thread starter macrumors newbie

    vUndefined

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    #9
    It's running Windows XP and it's an internal floppy drive. Thanks for your reply.
     
  10. vUndefined thread starter macrumors newbie

    vUndefined

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    #10
    It's running Windows XP and it's an internal floppy drive. Thanks for your reply.

    Edit: Whoops, double post, didn't think the first one went through when my internet bogged down. :p
     
  11. vUndefined thread starter macrumors newbie

    vUndefined

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  12. MacTech68, Dec 7, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013

    MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #12
    Yes, if it's a HD 1.44MB drive. However, you will need special software to be able to write the disk images to the floppy. You may also need Stuffit Expander to decompress the downloaded image file.

    For example, a filename with a .sea in the name is a "Self Extracting Archive". If you're running them on a Mac, the .sea contains a small application to do the decompress. On a PC, you'll need Stuffit Expander to do do it.

    A filename with .smi is similar except this is Apple's version of a "Self Mounting Image".

    The next problem is that some image files need the first 84bytes of data stripped from them before they are written to floppies using modern systems or non-mac systems.

    It gets quite complicated. I think the first thing to do is to sort out the hard drive since the floppy disks might be moot if you can get the hard drive working. You might find there is a perfectly working system on the hard drive.

    The head park locking mechanism (a white plastic actuator) pivots about it's center and has a small spring under it's center pivot to swing it into the locked position. Airflow from the spinning disk platters push on the opposite end of the actuator, over riding the force of the spring, and dis-engage the locking end of the actuator, allowing the heads to move freely. See pic attached.

    The locking actuator is there to prevent the heads skating over the disk platters when the drive is NOT spinning. You could remove it, but that risks damaging the platters and/or heads when the drive is not spinning. You'll need to take careful note of how the spring is fitted before removing the actuator.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Nermal Moderator

    Nermal

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    #13
    I *think* WinImage can write the .smi file directly. I remember successfully creating the Network Access Disk at some point from a Windows machine and I'm about 90% sure that I would've used WinImage for it.
     
  14. vUndefined thread starter macrumors newbie

    vUndefined

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    #14
    Cheers guys, I'll focus on the hard drive first. I've got some very good lubricant that's very thin and will do the job. After I do the hard drive I'll report back and let you guys know if I need more help. :)

    Wish me luck..

    -Nick
     
  15. MacTech68, Dec 8, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013

    MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #15
    Good luck! :D

    Just remember, do this is as dust/hair free environment as possible and don't touch the platters or move the heads!

    If it still won't move by itself, try cleaning the plastic actuator's spindle and the hole in the actuator and try it without any lubrication.

    Also remember, the airflow relies on the top cover being re-fitted to the drive.

    As I posted elsewhere:

     
  16. vUndefined, Dec 9, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013

    vUndefined thread starter macrumors newbie

    vUndefined

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    #16
    Well, I opened it up great and I found the actuator. I took a little needle tool and tested to see if it would move freely with the help of the tool, and it was VERY free-flowing. Even the slightest flow of air moved it perfectly. However, I still applied the thin lubricant to the spring and the top. After that, I let it sit and then tested it again and it was even more free-flowing.

    I assembled it back together and tested it. No difference. I still heard the motor in the drive rev up, then down, then one more time until it switched to the flashing diskette.

    It was worth a try, and at least I know that either I didn't do it right, or the actuator wasn't the problem. So, change of plans. I've got a 80GB IDE drive laying around and I think now I have a use for it. (Glad I never threw it out..)

    Would that work? I'd swap out the drives and then load System 7.5 on it.

    Let me know as soon as you can so I can start figuring out how to make the diskettes to install with. BTW, when I create the disks can I format the drive from the installation itself? Or is there some other way I need to pre-format the drive before I install as it's not Mac OS format.

    Thanks, and let me know if you think this would work.

    EDIT: By the way, the drive wasn't a Quantum LPS. I believe it was a Quantum Pro ELS or something like that.

    Regards,

    ~Nick
     
  17. tdiaz macrumors 6502

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    #17
    If the drive has an Apple logo on it, you can use any drive setup to go, it will work.

    If it's a non-Apple drive, you may need someones partitioning utility. Silver Lining, Anubus, HD Toolkit, et al. Apple's works with some drives, but not most.

    Or ResEdit and patch the HD Setup you've got.
     
  18. vUndefined thread starter macrumors newbie

    vUndefined

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    #18
    Even a newer iMac G5 drive will work? (80GB)

    On the side note, can I use a WD 80GB drive, connect it to my PC via USB and format it using any of the tools above?

    Thanks.
     
  19. vUndefined thread starter macrumors newbie

    vUndefined

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    #19
    Ugh-

    This is giving me issues. Stuffit Expander OR WinImage doesn't support any of the .sea or .bin files to extract and I cannot locate a download source for any of the other ones you said. (Anubis, Silver Lining, HD Tools)

    Any help? Also, can you tell me how I would actually extract them and put them on a diskette?

    Thanks.
     
  20. havokalien macrumors 6502a

    havokalien

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    #20
    Scsi

    I doubt the 80 gb drive you have is scsi.

    You need scsi not IDE drive. Harder to find. I have a few small type spares I could lend you and have system 7 on original floppies. If you hop over to 68kmla and follow the directions to get an account there is a guy there who makes an adapter for newer scsi wide server drives to work in older machines. You may have to move or modify the dolt to fit in the color classic but it would last way longer than using 23 year old scsi drives.
     
  21. vUndefined thread starter macrumors newbie

    vUndefined

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    #21
    Okay. So, say I get a hold of a SCSI drive. I'll put it in the Color Classic and then I face another issue which is System 7. There's no operating system on the newly installed hard drive, so I need to boot directly into a System 7 diskette which I have no idea how to make.

    Any idea how I would use the 19 part 7.5.3 download I found to put on diskettes?

    EDIT: Here's the drive I may purchase if it will work: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Compaq-36GB...Internal_Hard_Disk_Drives&hash=item27d317772d

    Cheers,

    ~Nick
     
  22. tdiaz macrumors 6502

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    #22
    That needs an 80 to 50 pin adapter .. and due to SCSI voodoo, you run the extra risk of it just not working anyway.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/360802606789 .. you need a 50 pin 1/3rd height drive.

    OTOH, the Color Classic would fly on that 10KRPM drive, and have a neat noise coming from it. :)
     
  23. vUndefined thread starter macrumors newbie

    vUndefined

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    #23
    Okay, awesome. So, before I order a pricey $35 drive, is there anything cheaper that is guaranteed to work? If this is my only option I may just list it on eBay with the keyboard and mouse as-is. Making these diskettes, then getting the hard drive, AND installing it all seems like too much. Thanks.
     
  24. havokalien macrumors 6502a

    havokalien

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    #24
    I said go talk to a guy

    On 68kmla is a guy who makes cheap adapters and has a slew of known working drives, I am sure he has a cd or original install media for you to use. He makes and tests, also re caps motherboards (which I garuntee yours will need sooner than later as all of the LC series motherboards do). I have three color classics and I am trying to help you. If you lived near Oregon I could just come over. With the adapter there is already an adapter to slide into the CC harness is why I was talking about relocating it with a scsi cable somewhere else in the machine.
     
  25. 4JNA macrumors 68000

    4JNA

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    #25
    bow chicka wow wow

    interesting thread, just got done reading top to bottom. two things i'd add;

    1. if you need to ask questions about SCSI, then you should not be buying bare parts. deal with someone who knows. it's like magic, but more complicated. ;) just go talk to the guy...


    2. after reading "Chuck - chuck (pause) wakka-wakka-wakka-wakka-br-r-r-r-r-r-t" i've decided to print that on a shirt, make a drive 'top' for a hat, and stick a molex cable in one back pocket and a data cable in the other back pocket and go as a 'Hard Drive' next halloween. epic! :D
     

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