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Indie No Show at iTMS Europe?

MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
50,441
11,827
MacWorld.co.uk reports that talks between UK Independent labels and Apple may have hit an impasse over the weekend.

As a result the iTunes Music Store for Europe may open without these key artists.

According to MacWorld, the independent artists represnt 25% of music sales in the UK, and 22% across Europe.

Apple is expected to launch iTunes Europe on June 15th.
 

nsb3000

macrumors 6502
Jun 17, 2003
275
0
Boston, MA
Macrumors said:
MacWorld.co.uk reports that talks between UK Independent labels and Apple may have hit an impasse over the weekend.

As a result the iTunes Music Store for Europe may open without these key artists.

According to MacWorld, the independent artists represnt 25% of music sales in the UK, and 22% across Europe.

Apple is expected to launch iTunes Europe on June 15th.

Apple should be leading the way with getting independents online, not this...
 
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pboy

macrumors newbie
Jul 19, 2003
4
0
Sweden
Oh, ****! Apple might lose tons of cred by leaving out the indies. I keep wondering about those "unacceptable terms"...?
 
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caveman_uk

Guest
Feb 17, 2003
2,390
1
Hitchin, Herts, UK
The indies are very important in the UK and Europe - especially among the young crowd - which I guess are Apple's principal target market. Although a lot of people here buy crap like Dido and Celine Dion, the folks likely to use ITMS are more likely to be interested in stuff on indie labels.

I still think the store should launch anyway but quickly sort out the problems with the indies as a priority.
 
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nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,546
1,196
Don't blame Apple yet, they may not be the party at fault

Considering how well-received Apple's standard terms have been among independents in the US, I'm inclined to wonder if maybe Apple's not the problem here. Maybe the independent UK labels really are being unreasonable.

Or maybe Apple is really being unfair in some way. Maybe we'll never know :)

Hopefully they'll catch on before long.
 
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musicpyrite

macrumors 68000
Jan 6, 2004
1,639
0
Cape Cod
who cares if europe doesnt have inde music, just get itms launched for petes sake!

The next step to world domination!!!
 
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asif3

macrumors member
Oct 21, 2003
95
0
London, UK.
this makes me believe even more that apple is gonna surprise us with some super-low pricing and the labels want to milk apple/us for more cash.

come on stevie, surprise us!
 
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NoCleverSNForMe

macrumors regular
Jul 12, 2003
188
91
The Other Stores...

This story is only significant within the context...

Have the other online music stores (i.e. Napster) managed to get these independent labels on their sites?

If it's no, then Apple is going to be great competition.

If it's yes, then Apple will be fighting an uphill battle.
 
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kronos2611

macrumors member
Jun 14, 2004
71
4
The way things are going it's starting to look like the UK launch of iTMS is too little too late...

I guess we'll see tomorrow though - hopefully the price will be low enough to pull users away from Napster and the rest that seem to have appeared in the last few days (www.sonicselector.com for example). If nothing else though, at least us UK Mac users will finally have a music download service we can use (even if it is missing lots of UK music....)
 
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Flowbee

macrumors 68030
Dec 27, 2002
2,944
0
Alameda, CA
pboy said:
Oh, ****! Apple might lose tons of cred by leaving out the indies. I keep wondering about those "unacceptable terms"...?

iTMS launched in the US without indies, too. Within a few months, they started coming on board. As mentioned above, unless another service offers loads of these indie artists, this is a minor set-back. Apple will sort it all out evetually.
 
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Stella

macrumors G3
Apr 21, 2003
8,499
5,366
Canada
**** the indies.. if they can't get into the 21st century, hit them where it hurts - their pockets... get out your favourite P2P apps and download for free.


Macrumors said:
MacWorld.co.uk reports that talks between UK Independent labels and Apple may have hit an impasse over the weekend.

As a result the iTunes Music Store for Europe may open without these key artists.

According to MacWorld, the independent artists represnt 25% of music sales in the UK, and 22% across Europe.

Apple is expected to launch iTunes Europe on June 15th.
 
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g4cubed

macrumors 6502a
Jun 2, 2004
548
3
Though having the indies would have been nice, I think the people are just interested in getting it up and running. They'll get on board little by little, just as it did here.
 
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greg75

macrumors member
Apr 5, 2004
70
0
nagromme said:
Considering how well-received Apple's standard terms have been among independents in the US, I'm inclined to wonder if maybe Apple's not the problem here.

Did you bother to read the article?

Independent US label Six Degrees – which has experienced "excellent results" on Apple's US Music Store – has declined to sign up for Apple's European service. Sources say this is because the terms on offer from Apple were unaccptable to the company.

While Macworld doesn't possess full details regarding Apple's negotiations with the independent labels yet, it appears the computer company is attempting to implement deals the independents consider to be "commercial suicide" in the offline world.
 
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nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,546
1,196
I realize terms and pricing have to be different for Europe--NOT necessarily because Apple wants them to be (they may), but because of different laws, taxes, and different companies with different existing deals.

The point is, Apple has been VERY indie-friendly thus far. In the US, Apple has standard terms for all labels, putting indies on an equal footing with big labels. They've been praised for that. In addition, Apple has clearly been willing to accept a very small profit (in fact none, at first) on the iTunes Store. Short-term greed hasn't been their mode of operation so far--they've been more long-sighted, selling iPods, promoting themselves vs. Microsoft, etc.

Now, as I said, we don't know... they MAY have changed tactics and decided to stick it to the independents in Europe (perhaps even bowing to pressure from bigger labels). But that's not the only possibility here, and not a conclusion to just jump to.

In other words, the quote "It appears Apple has presented terms to Europe's independents that are unacceptable to them, and the computer company is not prepared to shift its position" could also be phrased as, "It appears Europe's independents are demanding terms that are unacceptable to Apple, and the independents are not prepared to shift their position." The phrasing in the article was loaded, but in fact, says nothing about one side being the hold-up while the other is willing to deal. BOTH sides are objecting to the others' terms.

Beyond that, we don't have enough details to judge.

And I agree--get it out there, and improve it from there. There's something to be said for Apple's practice of "waiting to get it right," but that need not be taken to the extreme in this case.
 
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MikeH

macrumors regular
Jan 7, 2002
104
0
For the love of God, what it with these people? Don't they want to get their products to as many people as possible? Are they averse to selling their music? What do they have to lose by being a part of iTunes - surely they can continue to sell via the usual commercial outlets on little shiny disks?

Well, screw 'em. Launch it without them, and if/when it's sucessful they'll change their tune and join up. I know there's a s**t load of hassle negotiating with these things but sometimes I despair...

...on the other hand it could all be just a bunch of fabricated rumors and it'll launch tomorrow indie's and all. Fingers crossed.
 
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leenoble

macrumors member
Jul 3, 2003
77
0
The phrasing used above points towards it being Apple who have moved the goalposts between deals signed in the US and new deals in the UK...
But I rather suspect it has a little more to do with the fact that ALL record labels have routinely screwed the UK market in particular, and the fact is Apple probably wants the same deal on the table in Europe as they do in the US, it's just the record companies are used to a little more of a margin on European sales so won't sign up to the deal.
As someone mentioned earlier, I guess we'll never find out exactly. And if we don't find out then that must be the reason why - the record companies won't want to look bad by revealing the information since it shows them up to be a bunch of double dealing money grabbing arses.
It's *possible* we might find out from Apple's side of the argument, they have a track record of being indiscreet about these things in the past don't they?
But my bet is we won't hear anything. The indies will hopefully come crawling back when they see the sales they're losing as a result of not being on the number one store.
 
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DMann

macrumors 601
Jan 13, 2002
4,001
0
10023
Resistance?

Leave it to the Brits to resist
anything associated with Apple
and music (Beatles anyone?)
 
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kenaustus

macrumors 6502
Jun 11, 2003
372
11
It's like the old saying about the lottery - you gotta be in it to win it.

Apple's gonna be in it - the question is how long the indies will hold out. I have a feeling that a few will start signing up if they see TMS is generating a lot of business.
 
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coolfactor

macrumors 601
Jul 29, 2002
4,773
4,991
Vancouver, BC
caveman_uk said:
....buy crap like Dido and Celine Dion,....

We're all entitled to our preferences. Celine Dion happens to be a very good singer, even if she doesn't write all the music herself. I enjoy it.

It may be related to pricing/profit margins. Apple may be trying to keep a consistent, low pricing across the board. I sure hope so.

iTunes is going to rock the world tomorrow!

:cool:
 
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JINX

macrumors newbie
Jun 30, 2002
20
0
Los Angeles
I doubt this is Apple's fault

Apple's entire m.o. for these stores is to sell iPods. They make virtually nothing on the US store. Its basically a loss leader to get people committed to their iPods. Why would they suddenly try to get the indies to pay more?

This might simply be a case of neither side being at faulty. Apple is offering the best they can do without losing money and the indies don't have the same infrastructure to handle the pricing scheme that the big 5 do.

I'm sure it will get worked out eventually. Does anyone really think we'll still be driving to stores and buying CD's in 15 years?
 
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I'm desperately hoping this is either not true, or it means something like-apple got the majors to accept the terms, but a lot of indie labels aren't. Hopefully, once they see major labels and other indie labels doing fairly well online, and not too much DRM stripping, etc., the other indies will go along.
 
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iMeowbot

macrumors G3
Aug 30, 2003
8,634
0
greg75 said:
Did you bother to read the article?

It only says that 6 Degrees didn't accept the terms of the Europe deal. That doesn't necessarily mean the the offered terms were unfair, only that the label(s) wanted more.

This is just like when companies and unions get into contract disputes. The spin is always way out of proportion to the actual differences.
 
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