Infrastructure: Can they make it work

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Rhonindk, Apr 30, 2019.

  1. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    #1
    Been watching and reading about the current Pelosi, Schumer, and Trump meeting on Infrastructure. Cool.
    First question that came to mind: How are you going to work successfully with a President you are trying to impeach?

    Read the letter that was provided to the President prior to this meeting.
    https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/42919/

    Not bad however I did have a couple of thoughts on the content ...
    1. I am not seeing the concern for accountability.
    - Under Obama we tried some of this and the accountability was pretty much absent resulting in a seriously underwhelming result.
    2. The "broadband investment, the water, energy, schools, housing, and other initiatives" reads like a pork barrel ripe for the trough. Not sure if we should have all this in an infrastructure package. Broadband would be horridly out of date by the time it was actually put in.
    3. How would the best contractors / suppliers get the contracts over entrenched unions and affirmative action? The best businesses should get the contracts at the most cost-effective level. How can this be done.

    Still, what I saw in the post meeting sound bites, the tone and body language of the media session Pelosi and Schumer just held was a far cry from other days. They meet again in three weeks. Perhaps this issue can start to be addressed.
     
  2. eatrains macrumors 6502

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    #2
    Even if the federal level can make it work, what about the states? Obama sent a lot of infrastructure money to Republican states and they rejected it.
     
  3. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #3
    I think there is a bunch of political theater in the Chuck, Nancy, Donny triumvirate. I also think that we all know that their really isn't going to be an impeachment. If Tip and Ronnie can get stuff done the axis of evil can too
     
  4. Rogifan macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    #4
    Why do we need a federal infrastructure plan? I mean I know why Trump supports it (he’s a builder and infrastructure is building things) and Democrats just like spending money. Doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do. Also where is Mitch McConnell? Has he gone in the witness protection program or something?
     
  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #5
    Just lip service, 2020 is going to be here soon
     
  6. Rhonindk, Apr 30, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019

    Rhonindk thread starter macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    #6
    If you take a good look at the rules and regs California has about infrastructure contracts, this state will never get it done on time and will seriously go over cost. Accountability is a joke out here. I'd be open for a good federal program if it would seriously reduce the red tape and require detailed accountability.

    On time, On budget.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 30, 2019 ---
    and we wasted a lot of what we received in this here blue state ...

    Time to move on and fix this mess ...
     
  7. LordVic macrumors 603

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    #7
    Infrastructure planning is absolutely key, especially at the federal level considering roads, trains, plains, all must deal with cross state lines. you need federal oversight and planning to ensure that each state's infrastructure is capable, and can be compatible with those from neighbouring states.

    Wouldn't it suck if New York built their railways with 10gauge track and then New Hampshire with 8 guage. what a disaster that would have ended up.

    Similar for much else.

    heck, the whole interstate system the US has right now was done by a concerted effort at the federal level to ensure that there was suitable cross country roadways to support societies needs.

    at the local level, most local regions have very short sited ideas of infrastructure and don't often take into account the externalities. You might say who cares what infrastructure setup California has if you're living in Florida, UNtil you wonder why you can' get your favourite cereal because the trucks can't get accross the country smooth enough.

    Ensuring that national infrastructure is kept up to date, AND includes expansionary plans for future population growth is integral to a well running and functional society.
     
  8. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #8
    The $200B more Trump gave to the military for no reason should have gone towards rebuilding the country’s infrastructure.

    Rebuilding the country’s infrastructure should be a way bigger jobs program than our military currently is. As a bonus you learn marketable skills instead of coming back physically or mentally messed up while creating more enemies than you killed. That’s if you don’t come back in a box.
     
  9. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #9
    How would voters tolerate the inevitable delays?
     
  10. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502a

    Bug-Creator

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    #10
    I don't see over what time the 2trillion will be spend, which means it can either be an insanely high amount or just a drop in the ocean.

    The real problem will actually spending that much money in a meaningful way. Agencies needed for planning and oversight understaffed just like the companies that might take on the jobs.

    And thats before every local politician will insist on having his project done (with his brother in law getting his cut off course).

    -> Infrastructure has to be done consistent and with proper planning otherwise your just building up for the next crash.
     
  11. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #11
    Bug-creator, I enjoy the fact that our back-to back posts both involve double-innuendo.
     
  12. Rhonindk thread starter macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    #12
    Good question.
    Which voters? Delays caused from the Federal side? The State side? The Judicial side?
    --- Post Merged, Apr 30, 2019 ---
    That was one of the concerns; allowing the best fit for the job. Not the buddy, pal, relative, union only, or ...
    Which make sit Judicial as someone will sue.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 30, 2019 ---
    I wonder what kind of structured program they will propose ...
     
  13. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #13
    or literally on the highways, bridges, waterways etc.
     
  14. Rhonindk thread starter macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    #14
    Yeah ... been watching them trying to add a carpool lane just south of Santa Barbara for 3+ years now...
     
  15. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #15
    Yeah, and this is a serious thing. When the Interstate Highways were built there were a lot less cars, a lot less people and people weren't using that space daily. Everyone complains about congestion and commute-times, and to upgrade most of our infrastructure those would be severely compounded - and I'm not sure of the patience of people. This is assuming the planning was done correctly of course - if not, well even worse. I am not even close to an expert on Infrastructure and the engineering and subsidiaries of that - but within certain parameters - perhaps block grants to each State based on need?
     
  16. Rhonindk thread starter macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    #16
    My biggest concern, and this may be just me, is that States all do it differently and within different timelines.
    Likely unrealistic but I would like to see a Federal run group that can supersede the squabbling in some fashion to ensure we finish before 2100.
     
  17. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #17
    I agree. FEMA and TSA are imperfect examples, but they both provide a starting-point.
     
  18. Krayzkat Suspended

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    #18
    Do like you did with the Chinese and railways, and get all these immigrants that are queuing up to get into the US to build all the infrastructure
     
  19. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #19
    genius and horrifying at the same time. well-played.
     
  20. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #20
    A fair question. But we do need Federal infrastructure.

    Think about it this way: What would the US economy be like if we'd never built the Interstate system?

    Could Wal-Mart exist? Could Amazon? Could oil companies get the drilling and exploration rigs that led to the fracking boom put up - if there wasn't the Interstate system?

    What would the US be like if we hadn't had rural electrification? Without electric power to run irrigation and drainage pumps, the US agriculture industry would never have become the productive powerhouse it is.

    We need Infrastructure spending because there is not a good market mechanism to pay for very capital-intensive civil engineering projects. Dams, bridges, highways, ports, airports, and - critically - cutting-edge telecommunications networks.

    The Federal Government found a way to give more than a trillion dollars to Americas richest individuals and corporations, via a tax-cut they didn't need. The Federal Government needs to find a way to come up with a couple trillion dollars more, to pay for the roads, bridges, and data networks the rest of us really do need.
     
  21. Krayzkat Suspended

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    #21
    Isn't Federal Infrastructure just 'socialism' which most Republicans think is pure evil?
     
  22. LordVic macrumors 603

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    #22
    Or private contractor delays.

    these are all thing that have to be managed. Most of the delays we tend to have with infrastructure projects have almost entirely come down to private companies not living up to their tendered deals. Leading to lengthy and costly delays. Whether it's our Union station overhaul, which is now 4 years and several million overrun. Or our transit upgrades, which saw the private companies supplying the trains / busses years behind their promised delivery.

    every step of the chain in a massive infrastructure project need oversight. Penalties, and controls into timing, costs and the like. Too many private contractor companies think they can milk the government dry without providing the tendered service levels they promised. This tends to be the #1 cause of infrastructure spending overruns and timing delays. Failures by the private companies.
     
  23. dogslobber macrumors 68040

    dogslobber

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    #23
    I think Pelosi likely has good ideas for an infrastructure plan. Not sure what Trump has to do with it though.
     
  24. DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

    DearthnVader

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    #24
    Pelosi, good ideas?

    One of these things does not go with the other.
     
  25. Rhonindk thread starter macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    #25
    Most of her ideas sounded good however some - like broadband - are not thought out or fleshed out to account for technology improvements. Need a good bit more detail before I can agree with her "requirements".
     

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24 April 30, 2019