Instead of The Death Penalty...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Maserati7200, Mar 3, 2010.

  1. Maserati7200 macrumors 6502a

    Maserati7200

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2009
    Location:
    11230, Midwood, Brooklyn, NY, USA, North America
    #1
    When someone commits a serious crime in America, the death penalty is an option. While most other first world countries abolished it already, we didn't.

    Personally, with the death penalty I'm on and off with supporting it or not. On one hand, this person committed a serious crime, why should our society have to support him? And if he didn't get life in prison, he would be let out of jail sometime later and most likely commit such crimes again.

    On the other hand, in the long run, the death penalty actually costs more than life in prison (I really don't understand why, but it supposedly does). And who are we to kill someone? What if this person wasn't actually guilty and we killed him in vain? There have been times where people have been let out of jail because more evidence was found in their favor proving them innocent.

    So what I'm suggesting might seem a little radical, and it probably is but I'd like to hear what you think.

    Instead of life in prison sentences or the death penalty, how about banishment?

    If someone commits a serious crime, they are no longer protected by our society and can no longer take part of it. The collective will not support them anymore, but we won't prison you and they won't kill you.

    What exactly does this entail? Find some island in the middle of the ocean, somewhere far away from any civilized land mass and put the criminals there to survive for themselves. There would also be a no fly zone around the island and not allow any unauthorized planes to fly through.

    I think this would be a good solution because while we aren't killing them, we aren't supporting them either.

    Note that this wouldn't apply to any prison sentence other than life. I.e. if you would be sentenced to 20 years in jail, you would go to jail, not be banished.

    Thoughts? And if you think this is a stupid idea say why, don't just say it's stupid.
     
  2. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #2
    England tried that already. The island was called "Australia", and no good came of that.
     
  3. Hmac macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    May 30, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
  4. TSE macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Location:
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    #4
    Great idea on paper, but are wouldn't throwing them on some random island just be basically an equivalent of kill them indirectly? I mean, would you survive if you were just thrown on a random island with nobody else, or other convicts that most likely committed serious crimes?
     
  5. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    #5
    Criminal justice and corrections in US come as close as one can get to being a total failure on just about every relevant level. Justice itself is so far from uniformly applied as to be laughable. But the underlying concept of deterrence and punishment is fundamentally flawed. It simply does not work: negative reinforcement must be immediate and inescapable to have the desired effect or it becomes nothing more than retribution. And then there is the punchline, "corrections", through which the miscreant is supposed to reform, but because they were bad, society must continue to punish them, so the recidivism rate is quite high.

    Sadly, we do not have the sense, imagination or courage to explore other possibilities that might actually work. Perhaps we could turn prisons into self-supporting entities, but even that way lies the hazard in making them less unappealing and easier to send people to.
     
  6. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Location:
    The Mergui Archipelago
    #7
    What about pavlova?

    edit: Just checked and the latest historical research suggests it came from NZ. Your point stands.
     
  7. greygray macrumors 68000

    greygray

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    #8
    Which went down under.
     
  8. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Dornbirn (Austria)
    #9
  9. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    A man of the people. The right sort of people.
    #10
    Use them for extremely risky medical trials.. give them the choice obviously, death or, some untried implant/drug..
     
  10. IntheNet macrumors regular

    IntheNet

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    #11
    The problem with the death penalty in this country is we lack efficiency with it; typical cases where a death sentence is in place require a jury trial and even though jury decides legal capital punishment as the sentence, herds of defense lawyers delay sentence for decades on myriad appeals. We need to be more efficient with our sentencing; set a prompt time limit (a few weeks) for conclusion of appeals, then carry out sentence with some haste! We have legally-sentenced capital punishment recipients on death rows and there they stay for years! We need be more efficient here.

    I never understood why, in prison, it costs more to execute than to feed either; sounds like yet another efficiency problem we need to contract out for private bid to make the criminal justice system more efficient.

    Think of that a minute; banishment? We can't even control our borders now and you're suggesting "banishment" as a real sentence? Sorry... don't think that's a starter here...

    The idea you're advancing... of a penal colony... makes sense in certain respects; due to the sheer number of those involved in our criminal justice system today it may be one we need to further explore... I hear that some place called 'Gitmo has worked extremely well...

    Precisely... But you've got to address the ACLU and criminal's rights because inevitably a herd of lawyers will advocate on behalf of the guilty and a marvelous idea goes poof...

    Banishment - as a concept - wouldn't work in my opinion but you may wish to further explore the penal colony idea... we could also export the guilty to other nations... start sites in the Mideast, for example, to house those convicted of US capital crimes... that may have potential... the locals may not be so receptive...
     
  11. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    #12
    So you don't care if we execute someone who is actually innocent because we rushed our way through the court system? That is truly barbaric. It is no better than what goes on in Iran and North Korea.
     
  12. IntheNet macrumors regular

    IntheNet

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    #13
    Actually, as a Christian, I have fundamental disagreement with Capital Punishment on a variety of levels. Personally, I wish we didn't need the death sentence. But the cost of civilization is the fact that we, as citizens, have to pass judgment in our criminal justice system, and some of those judgments do involve the sentence of death for crimes which our legal system so proscribes.

    Now to your point - yes it does bother me that within the criminal justice system, specific to a capital punishment case, there is the potential, which cannot be denied, of an innocent person being convicted. There is also the greater likelihood of our jury system doing its job and 12 jurors making the right decision. We give jurors the responsibility of making the right decision and I see no reason to deny their sentence simply because of doubt. If our society sees fit to burden a juror with a life or death decision in a capital punishment case, delaying that sentence compromises the criminal justice system.
     
  13. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    #14
    Juries have been wrong in the past, and they've been proven wrong years later with DNA evidence, a confession by somebody else, or evidence intentionally withheld by the prosecution.

    Their sentence should be denied simply because of doubt. They're supposed to find someone "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt." If there is any reasonable doubt, then the defendant should not be convicted.
     
  14. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    #15
    Well, to be fair, they have a lovely opera house, they make some very nice wines, and they even occasionally create good bands and movies. :)
     
  15. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Location:
    Illinois
    #16

    ITN, you have no idea what you're talking about. Actually, what I want to say would land me in time out. What are you basing your opinions on? Experience? Education? What?
     
  16. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2008
    Location:
    Atlanta, USA
    #17
    I agree. If the system becomes an efficient no-questions-asked killing machine, it would be open to abuse. Heck, the real criminals could just loosely frame their innocent victims, stand back, and let the system do their dirty work.
     
  17. techfreak85 macrumors 68040

    techfreak85

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2008
    Location:
    Places
    #18
    One of my friends seems to think
    *NOT MY IDEA*
    that if someone commit a serous enough crime, they should be indentured to the government or even "enslaved" in more extreme cases.
    */NOT MY IDEA*
    His idea was, if you commit a crime so bad, you have lost your rights as a person. This could allow us to potentially save money on things like government construction projects.

    Whats your take on this?
    (And yes he is a little bit of a nut:p)
     
  18. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Location:
    Illinois
    #19
    Seriously, you people have no ***** clue what you're talking about.

    I could convict either of you on completely fabricated charges. It would be funny just to see the look on ITN's face when he finally realized he was full of...

    He's not as nutty as you would think, seeing as we do that already, but not nearly as much as we could. Take a look at your license plate sometime.

    (edit) Also, many states strip convicted felons of voting rights. Not to mention the GOP efforts to strip voting rights of anyone with the same name as a convicted felon.
     
  19. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2008
    Location:
    Atlanta, USA
    #20
    That was sorta the point I was making. I guess I wasn't very clear. Are you agreeing or disagreeing?
     
  20. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2008
    #21
    This has already been done in the US on prisoners, servicemen, and civilians. But many of them were unsuspecting and had no choice.
     
  21. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    #22
    Oh no, please, not Australian Table Wines.
     
  22. StruckANerve macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Location:
    Rio Rancho, NM
    #23

    So you're Pro-Death Denalty and Pro-Life? How does that work?
     
  23. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #24
    There are many "serious crimes" which do not warrant a death penalty even in your benighted mediaeval theocracy. Could you be clear as to what range of crimes you are talking about?
    You do not "need" the death sentence. Why do you assume you do?
    You probably mean "prescribes", but anyway, judgement and sentencing are separate issues. Simply removing the option of state-sanctioned murder would solve your oh-so-tricky moral dilemma. The cost of your "civilisation" is not necessarily any more onerous than that of a civilisation in a country which does not have the death penalty. This is an entirely specious argument.
    So the fact that there is a "greater likelihood" of a "right" decision than of a wrongful conviction is enough to make it acceptable in your eyes? How low do you set the bar in safeguarding an innocent's life?
    Evidently very low indeed.
     
  24. paddy macrumors 6502a

    paddy

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2005
    Location:
    TN
    #25
    Gas chambers?
     

Share This Page