Interferring in foreign elections is wrong!

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Chew Toy McCoy, Apr 22, 2017.

  1. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    #1
    Unless we do it, the heavyweight champions of election interference.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2016
    Location:
    Portsmouth, NH
    #2
    I love how they stopped at 200 to avoid listing the US involvement in Mid East elections, the brexit vote, etc.
     
  3. Chew Toy McCoy, Apr 22, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017

    Chew Toy McCoy thread starter macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    #3
    Yeah, I heard elsewhere it's closer to 80 countries but I couldn't find a snazzy info graphic for that figure. Or maybe some of that 80 was repeats in the same countries.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 22, 2017 ---
    I'm also willing to bet those with the same awareness as those who think the ACA and Obamacare are 2 different things think Russia is still a communist country when they are in fact just a more corrupt and strong armed version of our government. So it would be like they re attempting to export the US to the US.
     
  4. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Location:
    Fighting to stay in the EU
    #4
    Yup. It's not good, we should maybe do something about the most recent one(s).
     
  5. smallcoffee macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Location:
    North America
    #5
    Is this surprising to anybody? Do we want the US to stop doing this?
     
  6. Chew Toy McCoy thread starter macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    #6
    Probably is surprising to some. I'm just pointing out one of the many hypocritical attitudes some people have.
     
  7. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

    A.Goldberg

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Location:
    Boston
  8. smallcoffee macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Location:
    North America
    #8
    Like who?
     
  9. Chew Toy McCoy thread starter macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    #9
    Appearently the leaders of the Demcratic party the way they're going ballistic over a possible Russia influence.
     
  10. bbrks macrumors 65816

    bbrks

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    #10
    Well US boys and girls, just maybe you should finally stop acting as a world police and mess up everything and simply start taking care of you own backyard bevore it's to late.....
     
  11. smallcoffee macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Location:
    North America
    #11
    We would, but then everybody would complain we're not doing enough.
     
  12. bbrks macrumors 65816

    bbrks

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
  13. joy.757 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2014
  14. lostngone macrumors demi-god

    lostngone

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Location:
    Anchorage
    #14
    It okay when we do to other countries because we are the good guys.... Right?
     
  15. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #15
    I'd be much more interested in only the elections interfered with since 2000.
     
  16. Scepticalscribe, Apr 23, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Location:
    The Far Horizon
    #16
    Russia in the mid 1990s: Actually, it was during the Presidential election of 1996, when, according to opinion polls, it appeared that Boris Yeltsin might lose the election, an unwelcome outcome to the west. As an example of interference, it was quite notorious at the time.

    Needless to say, this has led - subsequently - to some ill-feeling in that country (not entirely unjustified) ever since, along with a large dose of cynicism at the perceived double-standards when the US deigns to lecture Russia on its democratic short-comings in electoral matters.

    Now, the UK........must do some further research.......
     
  17. sorcery macrumors regular

    sorcery

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2016
    Location:
    Ring of Fire
    #17
    Could start with the intelligence community interest in Harold Wilson? Just speculation...
     
  18. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Location:
    The Far Horizon
    #18
    Oh, heaven's, yes. Good grief.

    I did read "Spycatcher" all those years ago.
     
  19. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Location:
    Hartford, CT
    #19
    When was the last time the police were used to overthrow/interfere with sovereign nation's elections? It's time to put this "world police" ******** talking point to bed.

    The term is empire people, empire.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 24, 2017 ---
    First, why 2000?

    Second, there's a handful including Ukraine ("Yatz is the guy") since 2000.

    Here's the thing. Americans/Western powers may think "well that was 20 years ago" so it's irrelevant to today....people have memories. The USA discredits itself in the eyes of everyone with a historical memory span longer than a gnat....except in the eyes of Americans. Fancy that.
     
  20. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #20
    I would be interested in what the source considers to be "meddling." Clearly the U.S. has engaged in a vast array of activities over these decades. But an infographic without any further context is poor evidence.
     
  21. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Location:
    The Far Horizon
    #21
    I suspect that the scope, range, extent, form - and, for that matter, the very definition - of the "meddling" in question varied from country to country, and, indeed, from era to era over the period in question (and since then).

    Such "meddling" would be a lot more subtle - if it occurs - in western Europe, than the form it might have taken in the eastern half of the continent. And again, this, in turn, would probably have been discretion personified when contrasted with some of what occurred elsewhere - in less, perhaps, sophisticated, or, certainly less powerful, parts of the globe.
     
  22. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Location:
    Hartford, CT
    #22
    https://academic.oup.com/isq/articl...en-the-Great-Power-Gets-a-Vote-The-Effects-of

    This is the author's study on the topic, from Carnegie Mellon. His website (http://www.dovhlevin.com/datasets) promises making the dataset available soon, but the study itself is accessible if you'd like to read up on the specifics. Note that the study is not solely about America (it's just the numbers weigh heavily on the US being the number one meddler around the world) so we can jump ahead of the "He just hates Amurica" comments soon to follow by the regulars here....
    --- Post Merged, Apr 24, 2017 ---
    He's got a fully published paper on the topic, which defines the terms in context of the study. So as you know, the definition from country to country are moot.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 24, 2017 ---
    I think they stopped at 2000 for the sake of having verifiable datasets to analyze. The infographic is merely formed from a subset of the information in the study given that the study is NOT "how many governments has the USA ****ed with" but an analysis of election meddling worldwide.
     
  23. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2016
    Location:
    Portsmouth, NH
    #23
    The way that "election interference" needs to be more clearly defined as well. I don't think what Russia is accused of doing in the 2016 election counts as election interference.
     
  24. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Location:
    Hartford, CT
    #24
    Then go to the "terms" section of the study. I don't know what to tell you other than an infographic can be railed against all you want, but it's based on the published academic paper so if you have an issue with an open ended term go and look up what it means in context within the paper.

    Also, I agree with you on Russia. The notion that (allegedly) leaking emails is somehow election interference is the height of stupidity.
     
  25. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #25
    I'll be sure to check it out when I have some more time.

    But just on principle, I'm not a fan of the logic, "America meddled in elections, so we can't complain when someone meddles in ours." Ideally, no one should meddle in another country's election—with exceptions for promoting the freedom to vote or facilitating an open and fair process.
     

Share This Page