Interracial Couple in Louisiana denied Marriage License


Lord Blackadder

macrumors G5
Original poster
May 7, 2004
13,521
2,557
Sod off
That was the most ridiculous part...of course he neglected to mention whether he has separate "colored" and "white" bathrooms. :rolleyes:
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,987
Ah, the classic Maude Flanders defense. :rolleyes:

People like this make me sick to my stomach.
 

Signal-11

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
1,475
2
2nd Star to the Right
Is it really still that segregated down there?
It's actually much worse than you might think. I spent a significant amount of time working for the American Red Cross in the rural south, along the border or Louisiana and Texas, Alabama and parts of Mississippi.

There are open Klan towns down there, with churches decorated with Klan iconography. Law enforcement is so openly racist, it was stunning.

So this doesn't surprise me at all. The only thing that surprises me is that he's trying to make the case that he's not a racist.
 

nbs2

macrumors 68030
Mar 31, 2004
2,713
485
A geographical oddity
What is required to become a justice of the peace in LA and what are the duties of the position?

I'm just wondering if he is a public official or if he is a private individual who has been granted a public license (and what the conditions of the license are). If all he can do is marry people and is authorized to perform marriages upon request and at his discretion - then this is nothing more than a bizzare backwards man in the middle of a generally backwards region of the country. If he is required to sign off on all valid marriage licenses, or otherwise is not entitled to his discretion, then this becomes an issue.

This poses an interesting question - clergy are granted that same authority to conduct marriages. If a priest refused to perform the ceremony for a gay couple in MA, what would the result be? That same couple would not have been denied any right - they could still get married at the courthouse, and having a ceremony performed by the official of your choosing isn't a protected right.

I suppose my base question is - what on earth is a a justice of the peace? I know it isn't what I imagine it is (a guy with a big gun that blows away the bad guys in a John Wayne movie). I think.
 

abijnk

macrumors 68040
Oct 15, 2007
3,286
4
Los Angeles, CA
This poses an interesting question - clergy are granted that same authority to conduct marriages. If a priest refused to perform the ceremony for a gay couple in MA, what would the result be? That same couple would not have been denied any right - they could still get married at the courthouse, and having a ceremony performed by the official of your choosing isn't a protected right.
This paragraph would be relevant if Bardwell wasn't an elected official. No one is saying that you should be able to choose any official you want, the outrage is that an elected official can't inject his own feelings like this. He was elected to do a job and he isn't doing it. Your hypothetical priest isn't elected to do a job by the general population. Said priest would reserve the right to not perform certain ceremonies, like gay marriages.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,987
This poses an interesting question - clergy are granted that same authority to conduct marriages. If a priest refused to perform the ceremony for a gay couple in MA, what would the result be? That same couple would not have been denied any right - they could still get married at the courthouse, and having a ceremony performed by the official of your choosing isn't a protected right.

I
Do clergymen approve and sign the actual marriage license? (honest question)
 

Rt&Dzine

macrumors 6502a
Oct 8, 2008
736
5
The JP claims:

Bardwell said a justice of the peace is not required to conduct a marriage ceremony and is at liberty to recuse himself “from a marriage or anything else.”

To answer NT1440

The license fee is $35, and the license must be signed within the State of Louisiana. Once it is signed by the minister, JP or judge, the original is returned to the clerk’s office. A certified copy is made and sent to the couple, and the original is put on file.
http://www.hammondstar.com/articles/2009/10/16/top_stories/8847.txt
 

Gray-Wolf

macrumors 68030
Apr 19, 2008
2,602
1
Pandora, Home Tree
The JP can refuse to marry a couple, just like a Christian minister can refuse to marry 2 buddhists, or a Rabbi can refuse to marry 2 taoist. It depends on their convictions.

After all, as the JP noted, he does refer them to another JP that can marry them.

No one is saying that you should be able to choose any official you want, the outrage is that an elected official can't inject his own feelings like this.
If this were true, there would be no republicans or democrats in congress. They each act according to what they believe.
 

djellison

macrumors 68020
Feb 2, 2007
2,228
4
Pasadena CA
He should be struck off, excommunicated, whatever it is to be thrown out of any church duty. That's disgusting behaviour and is fundamentally, totally unacceptable.
 

VideoFreek

macrumors 6502
May 12, 2007
454
52
Philly
The only thing that surprises me is that he's trying to make the case that he's not a racist.
Why would that surprise you? This has been pretty much standard operating procedure for racists for a long, long time. The human capacity for rationalization and denial is breathtaking.

I grew up in the Northeast (NY State) mainly in the 70s, and though the South deservedly gets a bad rap for racism, I can assure you that there was PLENTY of racism in the Northeast in those days. There probably still is, though not anymore in the social circles in which I move. My parents were typical--they would always adamantly deny that they were racists, but in fact they were. Like this joker in LA, they always carefully differentiated the few black people they knew (whom they "politely" called "colored people") from all the rest (whom they called every racial slur in the book).
 

Dont Hurt Me

macrumors 603
Dec 21, 2002
6,056
6
Yahooville S.C.
Ignorance will allways be with the human race, lets face it there are people stupid enough to make judgements based on ones skin color,religion and sex. Humans are just stupid,biased and primitive. Its a common theme that replays itself over and over in human history of those that want to tell others how to live their life.

Our Country was founded on live and let live.
 

AP_piano295

macrumors 65816
Mar 9, 2005
1,076
11
The JP can refuse to marry a couple, just like a Christian minister can refuse to marry 2 buddhists, or a Rabbi can refuse to marry 2 taoist. It depends on their convictions.

After all, as the JP noted, he does refer them to another JP that can marry them.

If this were true, there would be no republicans or democrats in congress. They each act according to what they believe.
A JP is not a member of a religious organization they are GOVERNMENT officials and they have no (as in zero) right to discriminate people because of their race.
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
1,301
9,062
Toronto, Ontario
Why would that surprise you? This has been pretty much standard operating procedure for racists for a long, long time. The human capacity for rationalization and denial is breathtaking.

I grew up in the Northeast (NY State) mainly in the 70s, and though the South deservedly gets a bad rap for racism, I can assure you that there was PLENTY of racism in the Northeast in those days. There probably still is, though not anymore in the social circles in which I move. My parents were typical--they would always adamantly deny that they were racists, but in fact they were. Like this joker in LA, they always carefully differentiated the few black people they knew (whom they "politely" called "colored people") from all the rest (whom they called every racial slur in the book).
I think racism has dropped quite a bit in the last 2 generations, really old people tend to be racist still from my observation, their kids maybe a bit, and the newest generation doesn't seem to care as much.
 

Signal-11

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
1,475
2
2nd Star to the Right
Why would that surprise you? This has been pretty much standard operating procedure for racists for a long, long time. The human capacity for rationalization and denial is breathtaking.

I grew up in the Northeast (NY State) mainly in the 70s, and though the South deservedly gets a bad rap for racism, I can assure you that there was PLENTY of racism in the Northeast in those days. There probably still is, though not anymore in the social circles in which I move. My parents were typical--they would always adamantly deny that they were racists, but in fact they were. Like this joker in LA, they always carefully differentiated the few black people they knew (whom they "politely" called "colored people") from all the rest (whom they called every racial slur in the book).
It surprises me because in the deep South, people are openly racist and don't feel a need to justify that racism.

The psychosocial "I'm not a racist, I have black friends" thing is another topic.
 

Signal-11

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
1,475
2
2nd Star to the Right
Please, tell us more about people in the deep South.
Sure. Maybe that was an overly broad brush or you didn't read the implicit "some" in front of the people, but as a whole, the deep South is much more racist and blatantly so than most of the rest of the US.

I'm familiar with the specific town where this took place and like I said, it doesn't surprise me in the least.
 

VideoFreek

macrumors 6502
May 12, 2007
454
52
Philly
I think racism has dropped quite a bit in the last 2 generations, really old people tend to be racist still from my observation, their kids maybe a bit, and the newest generation doesn't seem to care as much.
I agree. I think it will slowly die out, after a few more generations. The really pernicious thing about racism, though, is how easily it passes from generation to generation. From personal experience, I can attest that when racist views are imprinted on young children, it can take them a LONG time to purge themselves of these views (even if they wish to do so). In my case, while I'd intellectually rejected these attitudes by the time I was in college, I must confess that it took quite a bit longer to erase the involuntary visceral reaction that I would have when, for example, I would encounter a group of African Americans approaching on the street, or when I'd see an interracial couple. Happily, those days are long behind me now.
 

FrankieTDouglas

macrumors 65816
Mar 10, 2005
1,489
1,957
I find the level of racism amongst humans to be highest in areas that contain diverse groupings of racial/ethnic populations.

In areas where everyone looks the same, no one is obviously racist because race is a non-issue. Dig deeper and you'll find other things that humans create to insure a community divide.