Iran's 3000 Spinning Centrifuges

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by MACDRIVE, Sep 3, 2007.

  1. MACDRIVE macrumors 68000

    MACDRIVE

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    #1
    The New York Times


    I'm more worried about Bush's pre-emptive mentality than I am about Iran's centrifuges.
     
  2. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #2
    I'd be quite pleased if the Iranian people could bring about a regime change.

    That said, the present Boss has stated he wants to create a Shiite Crescent, from Iran to Egypt. Israel would disappear; he's already publicly said he'd nuke Israel.

    Once Ahmanibajad has The Bomb, he has immense persuasive power over the nearby Arab countries to cooperate or get nuked. Add in the general mentality of inter-Arab cooperation which would create a relatively willing "Sure, let's go along with him..." behavior.

    Look at a map and figure the effect on the world at large were there the existence of a unified dictatorial regime across that area.

    It's all well and good to talk about negotiation and being reasonable and all that, but there are a lot of us Old Pharts around who lived through the results of Chamberlain's "Peace in our time" BS. All that's lacking from a Hitlerian behavioral pattern and public statements on the part of Ahmanibajad is "lebensraum".

    Iran's economy is in turmoil and doing poorly. There're the external enemies, western ideology and Judaism. Sounds familiar...

    The sad thing is that Iran is fully justified in building power reactors. At the present rate of pumping, they have about twenty years remaining to their known reserves of oil.

    'Rat
     
  3. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    Iraq is a theocracy, I doubt the people will have much say in anything outside what the theocracy/church says. Another twisted form of Govt based on religion.:eek: I have a feeling Bush may destroy those things before he goes.
     
  4. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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  5. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    In what way? At least Ahmedinejab (you seem to have trouble spelling his name) has not brought about the death of half a million people by his international banditry.
     
  6. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    Although I am completely against any nation having nuclear weapons, I don't see the problem with Iran having a nuclear program while there is an extremely aggressive force of invaders occupying the country next to his.

    I've always thought that the US needs to lead by example. We need to get rid of all of our nuclear weapons before we can go around demanding others get rid of theirs.
     
  7. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    That would be a huge mistake. If you thought 9/11 was bad, I can't even imagine what would happen if we gave up all nukes, especially in this day and age.

    BTW- don't buy the fear-mongering. The biggest reason we don't want Iran to have nukes is so we can invade them if we want.
     
  8. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    I'm not buying the fear-mongering. I know that even if Iran plans on making weapons, they are years away from being able to do so. But I don't know if you were talking to me or to the thread in general.
     
  9. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    Mostly in general. ;)
     
  10. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Would you be as pleased if an older, conservative Iranian were openly pining for the citizens of the US to bring about a regime change here?

    Would you support the right of the Iranian government to fund and support anti-government groups? Would you call it terrorism, or would you call it pragmatic policy?

    Or is that something you feel only Americans should be doing?

    And Bush has publicly said nuking Iran or North Korea isn't off the table. The difference being? You support one leader saying he would nuke a country, and not another?

    The "general mentality of inter-Arab cooperation"? Just what have you been smoking sir? Have you missed the "inter-Arab cooperation" occurring in Iraq? Lebanon? Not heard of the divisions between Sunni and Shia? Haven't ever heard anyone mention that Muslims have been fighting each other for a thousand years?

    And surely a man of your worldly experience already knows that Iranians don't consider themselves to be Arabs?

    This kind of comment leads me to believe that you don't really understand the situation; or if you do, you're willing to be loose with the facts when you feel they give you an advantage in a political argument.

    Additionally, do you feel it's always bad when someone gets to hold the nuclear stick in international haggling? Or only when someone other than the US does it?

    Look at the map from their perspective, and figure the effect on the world at large were the existence of a unified pro-US dictatorial regime across that area.

    Or look at it this way: If Iran had troops and friendly regimes in Canada and Mexico, would you be getting nervous?

    I haven't seen Iran either angling for new territories, nor slaughtering internal enemies on a Hitlerian scale. Your rhetoric doesn't match the events on the ground.

    But lets assume for a moment that Ahmedinijad IS the next Hitler. Then what are we doing in Iraq? Why would so many of you advocate for a policy that makes Iran stronger if they are our mortal enemy? Why are you not advocating withdrawing from Iraq in order to deal with a threat at least as bad as the worst dictator of the 20th century? Why do you not advocate an immediate draft and expansion of the Armed Forces if you do not think withdrawing from Iraq can occur?

    Is it because this "Ahmedinijad=Hitler" rhetoric isn't as pressing as you make it out to be? Or is it because you want the terrorists to win?

    Our economy could fairly be described as being "in turmoil" too. We've got external enemies, Islam, al Qaeda. Sounds familiar?

    Point is, anyone can point to things they think as Hitlerian. We've had several threads here about whether or not Bush=Hitler as well, which I can assure you that many Iranians would accept just as readily as you accept that their leader is like Hitler. And as we all know, comparisons to Hitler are so overdone as to be considered useless. So overdone in fact, that Godwin's law evolved. Everyone you don't like is Hitler when you're on the internet.

    And the sad truth of the matter is that radical Islam has far more in common with US conservatives than they do with US liberals.

    It's very hypocritical for one who supports their own government's right to research and develop offensive and defensive nuclear weapons to suggest that another nation does not have such a right. You spend a lot of time arguing that self-defense is an inalienable right when it comes to your personal possession of firearms, yet you don't extend such rights to everyone?
     
  11. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    Pointing out the obvious about Iran doesn't justify all your efforts at bringing the Bush folks into this, mac.

    No, the Iranis aren't Arab--but they're Islamic. The Shiite Revolution, remember? And they have publicly stated they wish to extend its political sway--which isn't the same thing as invading, conquering and possessing.

    And, yes, there is a lot of cooperation. Remember all the dancing around in creating the alliance for Desert Storm? The various Arab nations were strong in their wishes to send Saddam home, but not totally conquer Iraq. They don't see war in the same manner we do. (Just as the Japanese did not, in WW II days and before.)

    Don't confuse the Shiite-Sunni conflict in Iraq with the Islamic world outside Iraq.

    "Additionally, do you feel it's always bad when someone gets to hold the nuclear stick in international haggling? Or only when someone other than the US does it?"

    The US has never gratuitously threatened anybody with the nuclear stick. Iran has.

    Ah, well. mac, all you're doing is pretending that Iran has never supported harm to those who have done no harm to her. You're twisting and stretching points in order to support that. To equate Judaism to active sponsorship of terrorism as you did is pretty nasty, really...

    If people are foolish enough and ignorant enough to equate Bush to Hitler, that's their problem. In this instance, "Hitlerian" is much more accurate than "Stalinesque" or "Maoist". The political mouth-music behaviors are in parallel. And Godwin can take a hike, for all of me.

    'Rat
     
  12. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

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    This was an excellent post, mactastic! You made many succinct points with an economy of words. I wish I had that skill.
     
  13. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    Right, they're Persian.

    Uh, those in charge here have made more threats about bombing Iran than they have of Israel. Not that they even could do anything about Israel, they'd be wiped off the map before they even tried. Plus we're the only ones who've actually ever used the bomb against another country. Plus we invaded their neighbors, as we threaten them with the same reasoning.

    That's the part that really bugs me. This may very well be reactive on their part. We threaten, they threaten back, and before you know it, it escalates into something neither of us can handle. They know they have nothing, but they also know we have nothing. The threats against them pretty much have to be empty, because even if they were guilty of something, we couldn't do anything about it. We're stretched to the limits as is elsewhere, we couldn't do anything if we wanted to. That, and a lot of us don't want to. They're using the same reasoning they did with Iraq, which we now know turned out to be false. Can't blame us for not believing them when they cry wolf again. The rest of the world feels the same way.

    Sadly, they very well could be a threat, but all we've done is made things worse while leaving ourselves more vulnerable, pissed off and lost our credibility with our allies and even our own citizens, and used up all of our resources so we can't defend our selves.
     
  14. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    You should accept your medicine with a better grace, 'Rat.

    And the US has not been trying to extend its sway? What point are you trying to make?

    Desert Storm was a put-up job, too. It was only through considerable arm-twisting that the US managed to get any Arab state to go along with it. As for "totally conquering" Iraq, it was a pretty crappy plan then just as it's a pretty crappy plan now. Or hadn't you noticed?

    This is as close to racism as you can go.

    You appear to be completely ignorant of the wider Sunni-Shiite conflict, in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. Iraq just happens to have the most mixed population.

    Have you been in hiding for the last sixty years?

    Cheap shot, 'Rat. The State of Israel has caused immeasurably more misery, death and destruction than Iran's support of Hizbollah.
     
  15. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    Sure. I'm always dodging those roving bands of bombvest wearing hassidic jews.
     
  16. Queso macrumors G4

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    #16
    Are you Palestinian?

    No?

    Then let's assume it's not about you shall we?
     
  17. MACDRIVE thread starter macrumors 68000

    MACDRIVE

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    #17
    I have a feeling that Bush will wait until the end of 2008 to attack Iran; that way he'll be able to declare a national emergency and stay in power indefinitely. :cool:
     
  18. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    Surely even the supine Congress wouldn't allow that?
     
  19. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #19
    If they won't impeach the fool, why would they even bother?
     
  20. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #20
    The world is tired of revolving around that particular group of professional victims.
     
  21. Queso macrumors G4

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    #21
    Yeah, you're right. I can't for the life of me think what they have to complain about :rolleyes:
     
  22. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    Yeah, they've had good teachers in the Israelis.
     
  23. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #23
    There are those that lose, rebuild and make something of themselves and then there's the Palestineans.
     
  24. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    Yes, those Jews in the Ghetto in Warsaw really should have got themselves together, too. Bloody whiners. Totally unAmerican.
     
  25. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #25
    If you have a link showing where the Palestineans have learned anything useful from anyone throughout history, I'd be interested.

    Wasn't their role model Arafat? Where is all that money he safely rat holed to help his people? 'nuf said.
     

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