Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by IJ Reilly, Jan 1, 2006.
Iraq is a mess, was a mess and will continue to be a mess as long as revenge and intolerance is the way of life for those islamic nuts. Cost 350 billion dollars for this? George the king has screwed up yet again but it has cost us billions,our young soldiers and our good name as a nation. In the end does anyone really think Iraq wont fall into a civil war or into becoming the next theocracy ran by religious nuts like Iran? Mission accomplished? I dont think so.
I'm afraid revenge and intolerance are a universal way of life for many.
Its hard to get to democracy,freedom,liberty or justice from these roots of hate that seem embedded in the Mideast way of thinking. Only thing that can come of this is another Iran but it will be called Iraq. I think it would be better to embrace kurdistan as a place of freedom and democracy but i dont see the other two factions letting that happen nor turkey. If you want to straighten out the Mideast the first thing you need to do is remove the Koran and i dont see anyone doing that. Hence the Mideast will allways be a@#$% G.D. Mess.
Oh come on, would you say all our problems can be fixed if we remove the Bible?
You could say the same thing about the Bible here. Fundamentalist don't speak for the rest, just as I know a lot of Christians dislike the current bible-thumping nutjobs, but are afraid to say anything. Imagine if speaking against them got you blown up.
But yeah, Iraq - damned if we leave, damned if we don't.
Do you think throwing out the Bible would have been appropriate to straighten out the Roman Catholic Church before the reformation?
Suggesting people throw out their religious texts will only make things worse.
Well shoot, why doesn't everyone pile on?
The difference is Jesus was saying love each other as yourself not Jihad,Kill, Murder,etc. There is the difference, the Big difference. Islam doesnt teach tolerance to others, Islam is our way or the highway. Its a way of thinking, love forgive and move on working together to prosper or revenge,jihad then the other guys jihad and revenge then you then them and this cycle goes on for hundreds of yearsa and both sides end up with nothing but hate & war. Jesus knew better and our forfathers that created our great nation knew this because the values they held were rooted from Jesus teachings. Not Jihad revenge that goes on forever. Lets not spin this, the mind set in the mid east has led them nowhere but war,hate and kill. You cant just pop a democracy onto this base of hate and expect it to work Mr Bush.
Mideast will never be fixed until the way of thinking is changed and i dont see George doing much on that front. It starts in the Mosques and everything else is a distant 2nd. Democracy in Iraq is a waste of time,lives and billions of our hard earn dollars the way i see it as long as they hold onto screwed up teachings by fanatical freaks. 17 virgins for everyone!
Hey now, hang on one cotton-picking minute! That is a completely false characterization. There is every bit as much blood and gore and guts and veins in the teeth stuff in the OT, which incidentally is shared by all the People of the Book. The Koran includes many verses about practising love and tolerance. As in all texts, it depends what you're looking for.
Incorrect. They were rooted on Humanist teachings.
George's little Jihad may well go on forever. And what was bombing the crap out of 10,000 civilians in Afghanistan about, if it wasn't revenge?
It was already a democracy: aren't rigged elections, lying leaders, a culture of fear and a willingness to wage wars of aggression the very hallmarks of democracy?
Skunk is playing devils advocate & spin master, fact is Mideast is a Mess and what do all these people have in common? A way of thinking that is a screwed up mess, and where do they get this way of thinking? They are brain washed as kids in religious dogma of Islam preached by fanatics. We have the same going on here to the point of trying to replace science with Intelligent design spin with no basis in science. Religious fanatics are all the same they want to tell everyone what to do, how to think and behave and your $$$ and only they are right, now get in line for your 17 virgins or get in line for everlasting life or whatever works.
1. they have desirable natural resources
2. a good number of corrupt administrations, enabled by UN nations
3. a lot of people living in poverty
4. a lot of uneducated people
i'm sure there's lots more.
You hit the nail for sure! 2,3,@ 4 are whats ruining Iraq plus a fanatical religion.
i don't think that holds, though. iraq was one of the more secular states in the region. what's hurting them now is a lack of central government and a reason why the 3 major ethnic groups should work together, rather than power grab and seek revenge.
i keep thinking back to python's Life of Brian, to the part where one of the terrorist groups is listing the bad things about the romans, until they all agree that at least they know how to keep peace.
saddam sure was a bad guy, but i've yet to be convinced that iraq can be held together by someone who's less brutal.
When Saddam was in charge he could keep those Fanatics at bay but now that we have removed him they are free to take over and turn Iraq into another Theocracy! Compliments of George and his draft dodging republican gang. Patriots.
As zim notes, the people of the Middle East have many things in common besides just being Islamic. Just as the neo-cons and IDers have much in common besides their shared Christian faith.
You are correct that it is worse there, that the religion and the state are far more intertwined than they are here. But that only exacerbates the underlying problems, it doesn't cause them.
It's all too easy to point the finger at religion. It has happened and still happens in places like Palestine, Ireland, Pakistan, India, China, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan...
It's usually really about power and money. As it always is and always will be. From the Crusades to the Aztecs to the streets of Belfast, it's about power, not prayer.
The difference with America's early democracy was everyone put aside their difference for the benefit of everyone involved. We figured out we could accomplish great things by working together, and hence the greatest Nation ever formed. In Iraq there doesnt seem to be anything that unites the people to a common goal. Maybe it would be better to split the country up into 3rds. Sunni Iraq,Shiite Iraq/Iran and then Kurdistan?
What complete crap. Ever heard of slavery?
Don'tHurtMe.. your comments just reflect your ignorance on Islam and the state of the world, and the reason why its like this. I've read the Koran, the Bhagwad Gita and the Bible, and in all these religious 'manuals'.. there are lines like "Its our way or the highway". More like .. "Don't mingle with the worldly people, tend to associate with fellow Christians, or muslims, or hindus, or whatever"
And no, it doesn't mention in the Koran that people belonging to other religions should be killed.. in fact, there is no mention that anyone should be killed. Its just a bunch of fanatic religious preachers in the 'madarasas' (holy schools) who impart this crap to young kids.. and the seed is planted.
Now, you know what makes it worse? Americans invading the middle east, killing thousands of innocent men, women and children, etc etc. . in the name of "Freedom" and "Democracy" Give me a f#ckin break.. I can't stand this country anymore.. and what's worse is, everyone here seems to think that the US Is doing the right thing.
Anyway, the next time you're so filled up with hatred and stupid ideas about the middle east or religion.. I want you to be in their shoes. I hope, that while you're praying at home with your family, or at dinner.. islamic troops knock down your door.. humiliate everyone.. capture you for no reason and detain you and torture you for a few days before releasing you. I wonder how you'd feel. I wonder how your neighbours would look at those troops.They'll think "ahh damn.. that old teacher of mine was right.. these 'infidels' are bastards.. how dare they come here??"
The US is only making the problem worse, by invading countries we had no right to invade in the first place. Its only tragic to see the general public agree and form their own theories on religion based on a few events, or lines from the media or movies.
The general hostile environment towards the US in the middle eastern region can only be solved by the US pulling its troops out from the entire area.. letting them be, and promoting peace and co-operation instead of criticising their culture, or traditional methods..or bombing them. The way things are going, this situation can only become more grave.. for the US, as its currently a laughing stock of the world.
Again, your ignorance when it comes to regional and cultural differences. The United States is a relatively new country.. look at India for example. India has a history that is thousands of years old.. it has so many states.. every state has different languages and dialects, food habits, etc. Travel by train in india for 6 hours, get off at the next station.. and you'll find the language different.. the way people dress.. different.. and so on. Some states have wanted independence from the mainland such as Punjab, Assam, etc.
Not so out here, but in the middle east..heck yeah! I mean Iraq.. geez..supposed to be where Babylon was.. of course its going to have regional and cultural differences. You can't just whip up a 'democracy' in a countrry that's existed for so long.. its not that easy to come up with a 'common goal'
The Koran doesnt mention killing anyone ? have you ever heard of the word Jihad? What spin you spew. Though this administration used WMDs to go into Iraq ,Iraq did ignore over a dozen U.N. resolutions! I bet Saddam wishes he would have simply done as the U.N. asked him to do.
The issue now though is Iraq and the upcoming civil war and if there is anyway to avoid this? I doubt it very much and am wondering how long it will be before Iran jumps into the fray in a bigger way.
What does that have to do with my statement?
And round and round we go...