Is America becoming more like Fivepoint?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by fivepoint, Oct 28, 2010.

  1. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #1
    Maybe Macrumors Forums' public opinion is a lagging indicator? :D Certainly represents a move in the right direction in my mind... the question is how to steepen the lines... speed this thing up!?!

     
  2. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #2
    Unfortunately most Republicans are social neanderthals and have very little to do with true libertarianism.

    Cato = Koch, nuff said.
     
  3. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #3
    Such an intriguing fascination with wealthy individuals who decide to give charitable donations to organizations they consider to be doing good work... Like somehow the fact they receive money from someone who has money, it completely destroys the accuracy/relevance of their work. Fascinating, especially when you no doubt willingly lap up the words of PBS, HuffPo, Media Matters, like a cat to a saucer of milk. I'd gladly consume media from organizations partially funded by the Koch brothers before an organization that took money from George Soros.
     
  4. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #4
    Yes, many Americans do seem irrationally angry and bitter these days...
     
  5. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #5
    Obama disapproval and opposition to the healthcare bill are directly related to the lies that were perpetuated by the conservatives and especially the so-called libertarians, not to mention his inability to pass reform that progressives preferred. In addition, disapproval is related, although not directly, to the inability to generate more progress which has been hampered by constant GOP filibusters.

    That being said, I'm all for most libertarian values, but I do NOT think ceding governmental authority to CEOs of corporations is wise, nor do I think we are better off improving the economies of China, India and the rest of SE Asia. I also think "small government" is nothing more than a code word for getting rid of any regulations that cut profits even if it puts American's lives at risk. (See e.g. Massey Coal Mine / Deep Water Horizon). Actually, it is worst than that. I think "small government" is nothing more than an excuse to eliminate anything its proponants disagree with.

    Since Fivepoint decided to make himself a focal point of this thread, I'll use him as an example. In past discussions he has repeatedly argued for a more Constitutional government, and argued for the "original" intent of the founding fathers. When confronted with something he agreed with, but which was very outside the founding fathers' intentions (corporations as entities with rights), and certainly NOT in the Constitution, his argument was that the Constitition was merely a foundation upon which pillars were built to support that idea.

    In other words, saving people's lives and keeping senior citizens from being poor, homeless and without healthcare is against the founding father's original intent, not in the Constitution, and thus unConstitutional, but corporate free speech is a clearly legal principal standing upon pillars of thought based on the Constitution, a living document that is the foundation for today's ideas.

    I'm sorry, but I call BS.

    (edit) By the way, thanks for the laughs Fivepoint. That thread title nearly made me shoot coffee out of my nose.
     
  6. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #6
    Wait, are you saying that people who support smaller government, legal gay marriage, and the freedom to smoke marijuana are irrationally angry and bitter individuals?
     
  7. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #7
    As usual, your biases throw you completey off base. I watch PBS on occasion but never follow such biased sources as mediamatters or huffington post. If you can't be critical of your sources, you will believe any nonsense they spout. Cato spouts much nonsense.
     
  8. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #8
    LOL... nope, try again.
     
  9. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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  10. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #10
    Dear god, please no. If that's the case, this country is doomed. :)
     
  11. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #11
    Um... hahaha, I think you have a bit of a reading comprehension problem here, Mcrain. You clearly missed the entire point about constitution being a 'foundation'... your use of the word 'merely' is a perfect demonstration about just how little you understand regarding my positions.



    You can call 'BS' all you want, you'll still be wrong. Your sad and pathetic attempt to flip 180 degrees and redefine my position is surprising and sad. The constitution gives all people the right to free speech. Regardless of whether you're speaking as an individual or as part of a group, or union, or company. If you think that people speaking together as one group is not covered by the freedom of speech, it's clear you have a complete misunderstanding of the founding documents. Also, as a side note, commitment to 'original intent' is not a commitment to keeping things the way their were... it's a commitment to saying the words in the document actually mean something and can't simply be redefined and subverted at will as has been done with the commerce and general welfare clauses. It means that if you want to change the constitution (or more accurately add to it) you have to amend it. You can't simply redefine it.

    As is clear in the poll, Americans are increasingly coming to the same conclusion that our governmentis too big, has over stepped it's bounds, and the people want to return to a smaller and more constitutional government. I'm sorry you're upset that you're in the minority and on the losing side of this important trend. Just try not to get to sore about it.



    You can LOL all you want, but those are views I hold, those are views the people in the chart hold, and you think they're all irrational, angry, and bitter. Sounds to me like you might have your wires crossed. Someone's angry and bitter... but it's not us.
     
  12. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #12
    Further Evidence:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #13
    Of course it's not you. It's everyone else. Besides, angry folks would never curb-stomp anyone!
     
  14. CaptMurdock macrumors 6502a

    CaptMurdock

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    #14
    Sorry, fivey, but most of the bitterness and irrationality I see can be traced directly back to the sore losers from 2008. Everybody else has been whipped into a frenzy by these "libertarians" who felt screwed out of the White House by an Harvard-educated, moderate-to-left, didn't-need-Daddy's-money-to-prop-him-up Democrat with a funny name. All this smoke-filled coffee-house crap doesn't change the fact that these people need to Build A Bridge And Get Over It.

    That some of these people support same-sex marriage and marriage legalisation is nice, but incidental. The fact that healthcare reform, something desperately needed in this country, has been painted as an Evil Socialist Plot to Take Away Our Freedoms (tm), goes to show how bitter and irrational these people have become.
     
  15. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #15
    That's for sure.

    I mean, if the rest of the country is:

    1. Incapable of recognizing facts when placed right in front of them
    2. Incapable of admitting mistakes
    3. Only able to express themselves with talking points and extreme terms
    4. Incapable of empathy
    5. Incapable of recognizing that taxes are necessary, we've got huge bills have have to pay them. That means the Bush tax cuts have to expire for starters
    6. Incapable of understanding that the free market can't solve every problem, and finally
    7. Incapable of recognizing that no one is an island, we're all in this together and have to start working together,

    then we are doomed.
     
  16. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #16
    Ah yes... all of these viewpoints can be traced back to simply being sore-losers. ;)
    [​IMG]


    For those who actually take the trends seriously and at face value... here's another doosey.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  17. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #17
    This would be my view: more and more Americans are being pushed down and down (as seen on a previous thread showing 40% of Americans don't even have enough wealth to show up on a chart)...they're losing their jobs, their retirements, and their future. They want something to change. In *MY* opinion, and thus I will not give you the source you so crave, the right is MUCH more vocal in the general media about wanting things their way. Liberals are talking, but not in nearly in the "country is doomed" tone the right does.

    Those browbeaten people hear their tripe and believe it. So of course they will support whatever Rush, Beck, and whoever else is out there beating their chests say. Whatever...I guess I don't know many of these people, as I know very few people who follow that graph.
     
  18. OllyW Moderator

    OllyW

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    #18
    You are doomed.
     
  19. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #19
    Not at all. He's saying that Republitarian Tea Party jack booted thugs are. Do pay attention.
     
  20. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #20
    It's funny, I don't know anyone like this either, and I live in the third largest city in the US.

    Most likely.
     
  21. CaptMurdock macrumors 6502a

    CaptMurdock

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    #21
    They're looking for China? :confused:
    Now there's a contradiction in terms...
     
  22. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #22
    A good representation of these "small-government libertarians" during the Bush years.
     
  23. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #23
    Is America becoming more like Fivepoint?

    I don't know... are you poor and Mexican?
     
  24. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #24
    Wow, such thoughtful, relevant, substantive responses. Clearly you all have a lot to provide to this conversation. Riveting I tell you. Riveting.



    Some definite truth to this. The party out of power always speaks/criticizes louder, and it's always effective to a certain extent. No honest broker would deny this plays a role.
     
  25. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #25
    We all will be soon. ;)
     

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