Is anyone else avoiding the newer design MBP because of the Retina display?

cathyy

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 12, 2008
727
1
I'm wondering how many people are in the same boat here and deciding not to get the newer design modem due to the display. My 2 biggest problems is that I'm both a Windows user and a gamer and neither of these will work well with the retina screen.

Windows OS and it's programs were never designed with retina displays in mind. Attempting to run Windows at native resolution would result in everything being extremely tiny and almost impossible to read. Attempting to run it in anything less than native resolution would make everything look blurry and ugly, and ruin the very point of having a retina screen.

Another problem would be running games. My desktop still struggles to run certain games at 2560x1440 and this is with an extremely powerful graphics card driving it. Attempting to run a game at native resolution on the new MBP will probably just murder it and make the game unplayable. Again, running it at less than native resolution would only make everything look blurry and ugly.


At the same time, I don't wish to buy the other MBPs with the old design as in a sense, I feel that I'm a sucker for new things and I feel I could definitely benefit from the lighter weight. Honestly I just wish that the newer design came with an IPS monitor with the option for a 1680x1050 or 1920x1200 screen. I'd totally buy that in a heartbeat.

Anyone else feels this way too? :(
 

7even

macrumors 6502a
Jan 11, 2008
978
16
I wonder if Boot Camp will see updated drivers that can make it work in 1440x900 mode in Windows.

But native 2880x1800 would be pretty awesome to see on a 15" screen...
 

theSeb

macrumors 604
Aug 10, 2010
6,963
91
Poole, England
For gaming you should stick with a pc built for the purpose, if you are after playing at high resolution with details turned on.*

Look, if you don't want to get the new MBP, then don't. You don't have to justify it. You also should not make assumptions about how scaling will work on the new display without actually seeing it first or having some evidence to back it up.

I am not sure what response you're hoping for? Will it make you feel better if more people feel the same way?
 

GGJstudios

macrumors Westmere
May 16, 2008
44,427
762
I'm wondering how many people are in the same boat here and deciding not to get the newer design modem due to the display. My 2 biggest problems is that I'm both a Windows user and a gamer and neither of these will work well with the retina screen.

Windows OS and it's programs were never designed with retina displays in mind. Attempting to run Windows at native resolution would result in everything being extremely tiny and almost impossible to read.
We'll have to wait until some tests are run to be certain, but the pixel-doubling should mean that apps and OSs that can't take advantage of the higher res will look the same as they do now on a 1440x900 screen.
 

cathyy

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 12, 2008
727
1
I wonder if Boot Camp will see updated drivers that can make it work in 1440x900 mode in Windows.

But native 2880x1800 would be pretty awesome to see on a 15" screen...
Hmm I don't see why you'd be required to have special drivers to run it in 1440x900. Even the standard VGA driver should allow for it. Anyway Nvidia provides the graphic drivers in Boot Camp, not Apple, so I doubt that should be a problem.


I figure everything would look extremely tiny, but yeah it'll be awesome. Most likely it'll be similar to the IBM T220/T221 that had a resolution of 3820x2400 on a 22" screen, and a PPI of 200. The current MBPs have a PPI of 220 so it's about the same. I just worry that the novelty may wear off after awhile and it simply becomes impractical to do anything at that size.



Here's a sample picture of a 22" IBM with a 30" Apple display. The small web browser in the middle of both screens is actually of the same resolution.

----------

For gaming you should stick with a pc built for the purpose, if you are after playing at high resolution with details turned on.*

Look, if you don't want to get the new MBP, then don't. You don't have to justify it. You also should not make assumptions about how scaling will work on the new display without actually seeing it first or having some evidence to back it up.

I am not sure what response you're hoping for? Will it make you feel better if more people feel the same way?
I have a desktop but it's constantly being hogged by my sister and quite often I don't live at home, so gaming on a laptop is nice. :)

And no assumptions are needed. We all know what happens when you try to run an LCD at a resolution lower than it's native resolution. It always looks blurry and bad.
 

Auzburner

macrumors 65816
Apr 11, 2008
1,255
1
Syracuse, NY - USA
I didn't think about how my Windows 7 VM would look... Interesting thought. I'm willing to bet VMWare updates version 4 to optimize functionality on the retina display, but for now I will have to deal with it. Really, not a huge issue, but that's mainly because I don't use my Windows 7 VM very frequently.
 

pgiguere1

macrumors 68020
May 28, 2009
2,157
1,082
Montreal, Canada
I don't understand what you're trying to say OP. Why not just turn down the resolution in your OS settings, like you can do with any display? Same can be done for games in the game options.
 

cathyy

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 12, 2008
727
1
We'll have to wait until some tests are run to be certain, but the pixel-doubling should mean that apps and OSs that can't take advantage of the higher res will look the same as they do now on a 1440x900 screen.
My fear is that they would look even worse on the new retina screen than they do on present 1440x900 screens.

Why do I say this? Well look what happens when you try to run a non-retina application on an iPhone 4. It looks like absolute garbage and looks so much worse than it does on non retina iPhones/iPods.
 

cathyy

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 12, 2008
727
1
I don't understand what you're trying to say OP. Why not just turn down the resolution in your OS settings, like you can do with any display? Same can be done for games in the game options.
Have you ever done this to an LCD display? It always looks blurry and awful. I can instantly tell whenever an LCD is not set to it's native resolution because it makes my eyes bleed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_resolution

----------

Windows 7 has certain DPI options available. Windows 8 has HiDPI modes built in.
Yes it has DPI options available to adjust the size of the text, but in general the OS and the programs aren't designed with Retina in mind. Just some stuff to point out:

- You cannot freely adjust the size of various UI elements.
- Many websites are still designed for 800x600 or 1024x768
- Many apps cannot be resized, such as the calculator.

I guess W8 will provide support for Retina displays. However it's still not announced yet. :(
 

cathyy

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 12, 2008
727
1
1440x900 will look as good as native on the retina.
This is what I initially believed. However I'm concerned, because have you seen how awful non retina apps look on retina screens when the iPhone 4 first came out?
 

dalarca

macrumors newbie
Jun 12, 2012
5
0
Can't you just change the resolution like you can with any other monitor? Right now with HiDPI enabled on Lion you can switch your old Macbook Pro monitor from 1440x900 to 720x450 - I'd assume they didn't remove this in the MBPR.
 

Acidsplat

macrumors regular
Aug 12, 2011
192
405
Yes it has DPI options available to adjust the size of the text, but in general the OS and the programs aren't designed with Retina in mind. Just some stuff to point out:

- You cannot freely adjust the size of various UI elements.
- Many websites are still designed for 800x600 or 1024x768
- Many apps cannot be resized, such as the calculator.

I guess W8 will provide support for Retina displays. However it's still not announced yet. :(
http://www.electronista.com/articles/12/03/22/ms.outlines.plans.to.support.hi.res.displays/


I would beg to differ.
 

cathyy

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 12, 2008
727
1
Can't you just change the resolution like you can with any other monitor? Right now with HiDPI enabled on Lion you can switch your old Macbook Pro monitor from 1440x900 to 720x450 - I'd assume they didn't remove this in the MBPR.
I've addressed this point several times. Interesting though I never knew Lion had this option. I'm still using Snow Leopard.

Mainly the problem is that you can only adjust the resolution to 1/4 of what it is (which would be 1440x900). Any other resolution would cause a very distinct blurness. However my main concern is that 1440x900 would not even look good, because when we try to run non-retina apps on the iPhone 4, they look like absolute garbage.
 

Acidsplat

macrumors regular
Aug 12, 2011
192
405
I've addressed this point several times. Interesting though I never knew Lion had this option. I'm still using Snow Leopard.

Mainly the problem is that you can only adjust the resolution to 1/4 of what it is (which would be 1440x900). Any other resolution would cause a very distinct blurness. However my main concern is that 1440x900 would not even look good, because when we try to run non-retina apps on the iPhone 4, they look like absolute garbage.
I believe they look like garbage because you are used to the retina screen and apps. In theory, non-retina apps should like they do on an iPhone 3GS or other phones.
 

cathyy

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 12, 2008
727
1
I believe they look like garbage because you are used to the retina screen and apps. In theory, non-retina apps should like they do on an iPhone 3GS or other phones.
In theory yes. But I have both a 2nd gen iPod and an iPhone 4. I run the exact same application on both and it burns my eyes trying to use a non-retina app on the iPhone 4 while I have no problems with using the 2nd gen iPod.

Try using both side by side and you will see that non retina apps on the iPhone 4 looks clearly worse.
 

7even

macrumors 6502a
Jan 11, 2008
978
16
Hmm I don't see why you'd be required to have special drivers to run it in 1440x900. Even the standard VGA driver should allow for it. Anyway Nvidia provides the graphic drivers in Boot Camp, not Apple, so I doubt that should be a problem.
True that. Forgot about that aspect. I haven't run Windows natively on my MBP in years :p Mostly using virtual machines these days, running in a window.


In theory yes. But I have both a 2nd gen iPod and an iPhone 4. I run the exact same application on both and it burns my eyes trying to use a non-retina app on the iPhone 4 while I have no problems with using the 2nd gen iPod.

Try using both side by side and you will see that non retina apps on the iPhone 4 looks clearly worse.

I think non-retina apps look "worse" on a retina screen because there's less of a screen-door effect (smaller margins between the smaller pixels) so these blockier pixels are a little easier to see.
 

theSeb

macrumors 604
Aug 10, 2010
6,963
91
Poole, England
I have a desktop but it's constantly being hogged by my sister and quite often I don't live at home, so gaming on a laptop is nice. :)

And no assumptions are needed. We all know what happens when you try to run an LCD at a resolution lower than it's native resolution. It always looks blurry and bad.
Reports from reviewers actually using the RMBP indicate otherwise regarding the display looking blurry or bad at scaled resolutions.

I don't think it will be a concern.
 

cathyy

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 12, 2008
727
1
Reports from reviewers actually using the RMBP indicate otherwise regarding the display looking blurry or bad at scaled resolutions.

I don't think it will be a concern.
Tried it. Looks terrible when I'm using the "best" (1440x900) resolution. 1920x1200 looks decent enough though. I'm curious as to how it would look in Windows.
 

dallas112678

macrumors 6502a
Feb 17, 2008
797
525
I'm wondering how many people are in the same boat here and deciding not to get the newer design modem due to the display. My 2 biggest problems is that I'm both a Windows user and a gamer and neither of these will work well with the retina screen.

Windows OS and it's programs were never designed with retina displays in mind. Attempting to run Windows at native resolution would result in everything being extremely tiny and almost impossible to read. Attempting to run it in anything less than native resolution would make everything look blurry and ugly, and ruin the very point of having a retina screen.

Another problem would be running games. My desktop still struggles to run certain games at 2560x1440 and this is with an extremely powerful graphics card driving it. Attempting to run a game at native resolution on the new MBP will probably just murder it and make the game unplayable. Again, running it at less than native resolution would only make everything look blurry and ugly.


At the same time, I don't wish to buy the other MBPs with the old design as in a sense, I feel that I'm a sucker for new things and I feel I could definitely benefit from the lighter weight. Honestly I just wish that the newer design came with an IPS monitor with the option for a 1680x1050 or 1920x1200 screen. I'd totally buy that in a heartbeat.

Anyone else feels this way too? :(
Yes, I'm not getting the rMBP for the graphics reason. I'm going to get the Hi-res cMBP. I'll get the rMBP in a few years when mobile GPUs are better suited for such a high pixel count.
 
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