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I just took my nMP back to Sierra from HS.

Did the same, moved nMP D700 12-core 64GB 1TB off HS and back to 10.12.6
HS was a disaster working w/ Resolve Studio (both Appstore & BMD web versions) and/or r3D Red camera footage.

If TB2 removal from eGPU support is permanent, then little reason to ever upgrade to HS until the New mMP debuts.

Native H.265 support in HS is nice for 4K HDR to YouTube, but can transcode w/ no problem via "Hybrid" front end.
 
Yea, I'm on my way back to 10.12.6 as well.

OP, just look at the responses you got to your thread, although there are many others. People seem to be saying that it works OK although it's not really any better but that there is hope or that it's not any faster but look at the bright side it's not slower either...and on and on.

I submit that there are those who have upgraded and they just have to believe that everything's fine and that the next point update will fix everything and they don't want to admit that it's an overall disappointing release.

Since when are we on the Mac content with anything other than awesome? We're paying a premium to be on this platform that I personally continue to prefer to everything else, but I'm not sold to the point where I think that everything that Apple comes up with is golden.

Ever since Apple went to a yearly release cycle, there seems to have been this unnecessary pressure to come up with something great every year, instead of perfecting what was already a great OS.
 
Yea, I'm on my way back to 10.12.6 as well.

OP, just look at the responses you got to your thread, although there are many others. People seem to be saying that it works OK although it's not really any better but that there is hope or that it's not any faster but look at the bright side it's not slower either...and on and on.

I submit that there are those who have upgraded and they just have to believe that everything's fine and that the next point update will fix everything and they don't want to admit that it's an overall disappointing release.

Since when are we on the Mac content with anything other than awesome? We're paying a premium to be on this platform that I personally continue to prefer to everything else, but I'm not sold to the point where I think that everything that Apple comes up with is golden.

Ever since Apple went to a yearly release cycle, there seems to have been this unnecessary pressure to come up with something great every year, instead of perfecting what was already a great OS.

what about those of us who've upgraded and everything (ok, most things) really are fine, and believe (as has always been true) that things will only get better with each point update?

i have some issues, but no regrets, and am getting my work done on both my macs...and enjoying my HS experience. so, some people are happy, other aren't... just like it's been every year with each new apple OS.

anyway, whatever works. as long as we can do the things that do matter (whatever that is; email, writing, making music, organizing our lives, surfing); that's what really matters.
 
what about those of us who've upgraded and everything (ok, most things) really are fine, and believe (as has always been true) that things will only get better with each point update?

i have some issues, but no regrets, and am getting my work done on both my macs...and enjoying my HS experience. so, some people are happy, other aren't... just like it's been every year with each new apple OS.

anyway, whatever works. as long as we can do the things that do matter (whatever that is; email, writing, making music, organizing our lives, surfing); that's what really matters.

Yea, it's all good! High Sierra was kind of working for me as well until I decided that I want to get into some video editing. Installing iMovie proved to be disastrous, as the app crashed each time I launched it.

At any rate, I just did my wipe-out and am back on 10.12.6 and guess what:

iMovie 10.1.8 WORKS just fine with the lid closed and my USB-C hub without having to mess around with the lid. And Sierra is FASTER and snappier! Safari is faster too! I'm loving it!

I'm still disappointed because I always like to be on the latest and what is usually the greatest, but this time, it didn't work out. I mean how can an OLDER OS be FASTER than a newer one on a (second to) latest generation Mac? Grrrr....
 
With High Sierra its kind like with Windows Vista.
We can only hope that macOS 10.14 will be better.

10.14 should be better, the way each new OS... should be better. meanwhile (for me), HS is (in keeping with tradition), better than sierra (which also kept up the tradition). we still need fixes, because HS is not perfect (what is?). so... not sure what your post is about, but yes, 'we can hope that 10.14 will be better' (and that 10.15 will be better than 10.14... ad infinitum)...
 
10.14 should be better, the way each new OS... should be better. meanwhile (for me), HS is (in keeping with tradition), better than sierra (which also kept up the tradition). we still need fixes, because HS is not perfect (what is?). so... not sure what your post is about, but yes, 'we can hope that 10.14 will be better' (and that 10.15 will be better than 10.14... ad infinitum)...
My post is about very bad macOS 10.13. I don't know if you read, but there are many issues with GeForce owners and High Sierra. In short - HS is almost useless with GeForce.
I was in Apple Store with this issue and Apple support said to me that I need to stick with Sierra until it will be fixed.
 
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^^^^Have you tried the Invidia Web Drivers, per chance?

And, I'm sure Fisherking can read, as can I. I have a MVC flashed GTX1080 in my cMP. It's running just fine in HS.

Lou
 
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There are serious graphical issues with HS...! I'm reading online that regardless if you have discrete or integrated graphics, you might be stuck with:

1) Ghosting
2) Wash-out / fading
3) Random artefacts
4) Rendering issues

And I have personally experienced Nos. 1 and 4 on my 2013 MBP, which had none of these issues with 10.12.6 :mad:. I would honestly wait or skip HS (luckily I did on my iMac), since Apples standard response line is that it's a problem with your hardware; because magically every person who is having a graphical issue the moment they install 10.13 coincidentally had their hardware at the exact same time makes perfect sense, right, Right?
[doublepost=1519401134][/doublepost]
^^^^Have you tried the Invidia Web Drivers, per chance?

And, I'm sure Fisherking can read, as can I. I have a MVC flashed GTX1080 in my cMP. It's running just fine in HS.

Lou

There still aren't fixes for the graphical issues, and it's been happening since day one of 10.13. 10.12 had none of these issues (broadly speaking).
 
There are serious graphical issues with HS...! I'm reading online that regardless if you have discrete or integrated graphics, you might be stuck with:

1) Ghosting
2) Wash-out / fading
3) Random artefacts
4) Rendering issues

And I have personally experienced Nos. 1 and 4 on my 2013 MBP, which had none of these issues with 10.12.6 :mad:. I would honestly wait or skip HS (luckily I did on my iMac), since Apples standard response line is that it's a problem with your hardware; because magically every person who is having a graphical issue the moment they install 10.13 coincidentally had their hardware at the exact same time makes perfect sense, right, Right?
[doublepost=1519401134][/doublepost]

There still aren't fixes for the graphical issues, and it's been happening since day one of 10.13. 10.12 had none of these issues (broadly speaking).

yes it needs to be fixed, and no, it's not universal; not having that issue on either of my macs.
 
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I think the people who just upgrade and have no problems are a LOT less likely to comment in a thread like this one -- so not sure the complaints here really accurately reflect how many people have frustrations with High Sierra?

I had one VERY frustrating issue with one Mac notebook used by an employee where I work. Since I do I.T. support for them, I had to have her FedEx the machine to me and spent 4 or 5 days trying to recover her data and get it working properly on High Sierra again, after her upgrade attempt failed catastrophically.

(And in her case? There were some oddities with the whole ordeal, including me not knowing her iCloud password when rebuilding her system. Since with Sierra, they now support the ability to save disk space by letting the Mac automatically shuffle less often accessed files to iCloud storage, it appears you can wind up corrupting things if you do an OS reinstall on a partition where that's been happening and then you skip the iCloud login process.)

If that was the extent of my High Sierra experiences, I'd absolutely hate the release! But fact is, my wife and I own several Macs at home and our HS upgrades went without any incidents at all. Same for the majority of people where I work who upgraded.

I do realize Mac users demand "awesome" because that's what was always promised by paying more for the Mac experience. But I *also* realize OS X releases are now FREE. I can remember when you had to shell out real money to move up to the latest version (and after that, at least pay a "token" amount).

If you're a "special case" using an app or two that performs worse or doesn't even run in HS, then obviously the upgrade is NOT for you. That's ok. Apple still supports 1 to 2 OS X releases back from whatever the latest one is.


Yea, I'm on my way back to 10.12.6 as well.

OP, just look at the responses you got to your thread, although there are many others. People seem to be saying that it works OK although it's not really any better but that there is hope or that it's not any faster but look at the bright side it's not slower either...and on and on.

I submit that there are those who have upgraded and they just have to believe that everything's fine and that the next point update will fix everything and they don't want to admit that it's an overall disappointing release.

Since when are we on the Mac content with anything other than awesome? We're paying a premium to be on this platform that I personally continue to prefer to everything else, but I'm not sold to the point where I think that everything that Apple comes up with is golden.

Ever since Apple went to a yearly release cycle, there seems to have been this unnecessary pressure to come up with something great every year, instead of perfecting what was already a great OS.
 
yes it needs to be fixed, and no, it's not universal; not having that issue on either of my macs.

Which GPUs do you have? Adobe was kind enough to post a list on their online forum which GPUs they know are going to have / may have issues. As a longtime Apple user (read: elementary school, in the 80's), I'm very disappointed at the amount of core issues 10.13 is having. I wish I was able to revert back to 10.12.

I really think this has to do with Metal 2 , which was released in 10.13 and clearly isn't ready for primetime.
 
my macbook has: Intel HD Graphics 515, my macbook pro has: Intel Iris Graphics 6100.

i was having a terrible time with messages on my mac, which is fixed in beta 3. so am mostly good here (on both machines)...
 
When I first got my MacBook Pro, I upgraded to Maverick. Then I updated to Yosemeti and hated it so bad I went back to the Apple store and had Maverick reinstalled.

I can't get certain free apps now unless I upgrade past 10.9 - anyone regret updating to High Sierra? Thanks.

I like high Sierra after 10.13.3. But make sure you do a clean install and NOT an Upgrade. Wipe the drive then install 10.13 - If you don't you stand an 85% chance of spending a lot more time trouble shooting and in the end you'll wind up clean installing anyway :D
 
I like high Sierra after 10.13.3. But make sure you do a clean install and NOT an Upgrade. Wipe the drive then install 10.13 - If you don't you stand an 85% chance of spending a lot more time trouble shooting and in the end you'll wind up clean installing anyway :D

that 85% is based on what sources? seriously, i just upgraded my mac, and all is (mostly) well...
 
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I like high Sierra after 10.13.3. But make sure you do a clean install and NOT an Upgrade. Wipe the drive then install 10.13 - If you don't you stand an 85% chance of spending a lot more time trouble shooting and in the end you'll wind up clean installing anyway :D

How did you arrive at that figure Unknown.jpeg

I haven't done a clean install in years!

Lou
 
How did you arrive at that figureView attachment 752207

I haven't done a clean install in years!

Lou
Somewhere between 75 & 100 %.

There are some scenarios in which an upgrade wont mess u up. But 100% of my cases since all the years using OS X now macOS - not clean installing has made my life difficult. If all one does is check mails, write letters etc. perhaps upgrading will go unnoticed. However, in my case doing pro audio/video/image upgrading has never done good. I wish it would though because setting up a macOS with all the software I need takes more than a day. If upgrading were a possibility I would save A LOT of time...
[doublepost=1519461742][/doublepost]
that 85% is based on what sources? seriously, i just upgraded my mac, and all is (mostly) well...

My own and colleagues' experience only. Don't get you head wrapped around the exact figure, I could as easily have written 3/4 of the time an upgrade will cause pain. Just know that most of the time it causes pain. At least in my world which is pro video/audio/image
 
Somewhere between 75 & 100 %.

There are some scenarios in which an upgrade wont mess u up. But 100% of my cases since all the years using OS X now macOS - not clean installing has made my life difficult. If all one does is check mails, write letters etc. perhaps upgrading will go unnoticed. However, in my case doing pro audio/video/image upgrading has never done good. I wish it would though because setting up a macOS with all the software I need takes more than a day. If upgrading were a possibility I would save A LOT of time...
[doublepost=1519461742][/doublepost]

My own and colleagues' experience only. Don't get you head wrapped around the exact figure, I could as easily have written 3/4 of the time an upgrade will cause pain. Just know that most of the time it causes pain. At least in my world which is pro video/audio/image

am also in pro audio (mostly)/video (a little), and my experiences (and the small group of collabs i work with) are very different. just know that most of the time it's pretty good, and there's no (major) pain...
 
am also in pro audio (mostly)/video (a little), and my experiences (and the small group of collabs i work with) are very different. just know that most of the time it's pretty good, and there's no (major) pain...

Are you using APFS or HFS+? For me, High Sierra on APFS wasn’t very pleasing (slow boot and slower app launch times). I downgraded to Sierra in december everything has been smooth since then. I wouldn’t mind upgrading again but 1/I would keep it on HFS+ and 2/clean install is not an option, I have too many VIs to reinstall (NI is supposed to remember where the libraries are but it doesn’t, last time I had to redownload Komplete Ultimate entirely, it took days, and yet all my NI content was already installed)
 
Which GPUs do you have? Adobe was kind enough to post a list on their online forum which GPUs they know are going to have / may have issues. As a longtime Apple user (read: elementary school, in the 80's), I'm very disappointed at the amount of core issues 10.13 is having. I wish I was able to revert back to 10.12.

I really think this has to do with Metal 2 , which was released in 10.13 and clearly isn't ready for primetime.

Sorry to hear of your problems. I couldn't even launch iMovie without it crashing and burning every time.

You say you wish you could go back to 10.12. You can! I just did less than a week ago and am glad I did. What exactly is preventing you from re-installing Sierra?
 
Are you using APFS or HFS+? For me, High Sierra on APFS wasn’t very pleasing (slow boot and slower app launch times). I downgraded to Sierra in december everything has been smooth since then. I wouldn’t mind upgrading again but 1/I would keep it on HFS+ and 2/clean install is not an option, I have too many VIs to reinstall (NI is supposed to remember where the libraries are but it doesn’t, last time I had to redownload Komplete Ultimate entirely, it took days, and yet all my NI content was already installed)

both my macs (both with SSDs) are on APFS (my external drives remain HFS+). no NI plugins (i got frustrated with their file organization); but i do use a lot of 3rd party AUs. right now, in 10.13.4 beta 3, everything is running well.
 
Somewhere between 75 & 100 %.

There are some scenarios in which an upgrade wont mess u up. But 100% of my cases since all the years using OS X now macOS - not clean installing has made my life difficult. If all one does is check mails, write letters etc. perhaps upgrading will go unnoticed. However, in my case doing pro audio/video/image upgrading has never done good. I wish it would though because setting up a macOS with all the software I need takes more than a day. If upgrading were a possibility I would save A LOT of time...
[doublepost=1519461742][/doublepost]

My own and colleagues' experience only. Don't get you head wrapped around the exact figure, I could as easily have written 3/4 of the time an upgrade will cause pain. Just know that most of the time it causes pain. At least in my world which is pro video/audio/image

Since 10.6, I've upgraded to the latest version of every release until 10.12 by Release Candidate 3. So I'm not so sure about the 75%-100% figure.

That said, I do agree that a clean install eventually is a good thing between major releases, although I would wait to see if I had any problems.


I do realize Mac users demand "awesome" because that's what was always promised by paying more for the Mac experience. But I *also* realize OS X releases are now FREE. I can remember when you had to shell out real money to move up to the latest version (and after that, at least pay a "token" amount).

I'd rather pay for 10.13 and have a great OS to show for it.
 
Since 10.6, I've upgraded to the latest version of every release until 10.12 by Release Candidate 3. So I'm not so sure about the 75%-100% figure.

That said, I do agree that a clean install eventually is a good thing between major releases, although I would wait to see if I had any problems.



I'd rather pay for 10.13 and have a great OS to show for it.

good news! 10.13 is a great OS (albeit with some quirks, as is true of all OSes), and it IS free!
 
Sorry to hear of your problems. I couldn't even launch iMovie without it crashing and burning every time.

You say you wish you could go back to 10.12. You can! I just did less than a week ago and am glad I did. What exactly is preventing you from re-installing Sierra?

I don't have the 10.12 file... my mistake for not saving it before upgrading.
 
Apple still supports 1 to 2 OS X releases back from whatever the latest one is.

Only if you have an older Mac that originally shipped with that older OS release.
[doublepost=1519552709][/doublepost]1. Since the very early versions of Mac OS X, there is no way to rearrange the list of Favorite Servers in the Finder's Connect To Server window. If a person has added multiple servers to the Favorite Servers list, one would expect to be able to rearrange servers simply by dragging. But after more than 10 years, it is still not possible to rearrange servers. It seems that Apple engineers did not bother to test the user interface with more than a single server in the list.


2. Starting with Yosemite, many applications open in the bottom left area of the screen and there is no way to change that behavior. Try using a 30 inch, 2560x1600 monitor and you will see exactly what I mean. Examples include TextEdit and disk images. When changing primary display between a 15 inch laptop and 30 inch monitor, Finder windows, Safari and other applications are all thrown into the bottom left corner of the 30 inch monitor. It seems that both Apple and third party developers only test their window placements on 12 inch MacBook screens and assume that everybody in the world uses a 12 inch MacBook as their only display. When I work on the smaller screen, I am actually afraid to move any windows around for fear that they will be thrown into the bottom left corner of my 30 inch monitor once I plug it in. I don't recall seeing these irritating window positioning issues before Yosemite.


3. Starting with Sierra, the Console application has been crippled and has lost most of its previous functionality. It introduces many UI bugs that are still not fixed. Biggest functionality issue is that it only shows messages that are generated after Console is opened - not very useful for viewing system logs. Does Apple expect people to always know beforehand when they will need to see the messages so they can open Console before those messages are generated? Meanwhile, Macworld publishes a puff piece "review" that does not address any of the issues at all:

https://www.macworld.com/article/31...sier-to-get-the-mac-information-you-need.html


4. With every release of Mac OS, Apple keeps hiding more and more functionality behind hidden Option key shortcuts. Examples:
Instead of simply using Escape key to "unselect all" in the Finder, it has been changed to Command-Option-A. And you don't see it in the Edit menu unless you hold down Option key while Edit menu is open.

When copying a group of files and the destination already contains a file with the name name, the file copy dialog does not contain a Skip button. But if you hold the Option key, one of the buttons changes to Skip.

In System Preferences > Displays, there is no longer a Detect Displays button. But if you hold down the Option key, the Detect Displays button magically appears.

There is stuff like this littered all over the menu bar commands in the Finder. How are people supposed to know all of these hidden Option key shortcuts? Does Apple expect people to hold down the Option key while opening every menu and in every dialog box? Does Apple expect people to scour the internet in search of hidden Option key shortcuts? In locations where additional commands are available by holding down the Option key, Apple couldn't even bother to provide a simple visual indicator to tell people "Hold down Option key to see additional commands" so people won't have to guess?
 
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