Is Catholicism a false religion? Are Catholics saved?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by iDisk, May 11, 2011.

  1. iDisk, May 11, 2011
    Last edited: May 13, 2011

    iDisk macrumors 6502a

    iDisk

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    #1
    The most crucial problem with the Roman Catholic Church is its belief that faith alone in Christ is not sufficient for salvation. The Bible clearly and consistently states that receiving Jesus Christ as Savior, by grace through faith, grants salvation (John 1:12; 3:16,18,36; Acts 16:31; Romans 10:9-10,13; Ephesians 2:8-9). The Roman Catholic Church rejects this. The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that a person must believe in Jesus Christ AND be baptized AND receive the Eucharist along with the other sacraments AND obey the decrees of the Roman Catholic Church AND perform meritorious works AND not die with any mortal sins AND etc., etc., etc. Catholic divergence from the Bible on this most crucial of issues, salvation, means that yes, Catholicism is a false religion. If a person believes what the Catholic Church officially teaches, he/she will not be saved. Any claim that works or rituals must be added to faith in order for salvation to be achieved is a claim that Jesus’ death was not sufficient to fully purchase our salvation.

    While salvation by faith is the most crucial issue, in comparing Roman Catholicism with the Word of God, there are many other differences and contradictions as well. The Roman Catholic Church teaches many doctrines that are in disagreement with what the Bible declares. These include apostolic succession, worship of saints or Mary, prayer to saints or Mary, the pope / papacy, infant baptism, transubstantiation, plenary indulgences, the sacramental system, and purgatory. While Catholics claim Scriptural support for these concepts, none of these teachings have any solid foundation in the clear teaching of Scripture. These concepts are based on Catholic tradition, not the Word of God. In fact, they all clearly contradict Biblical principles.

    In regards to the question “Are Catholics saved?”, this is a more difficult question to answer. It is impossible to give a universal statement on the salvation of all members of any denomination of Christianity. Not ALL Baptists are saved. Not ALL Presbyterians are saved. Not ALL Lutherans are saved. Salvation is determined by personal faith in Jesus alone for salvation, not by titles or denominational identification. Despite the unbiblical beliefs and practices of the Roman Catholic Church, there are genuine believers who attend Roman Catholic churches. There are many Roman Catholics who have genuinely placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. However, these Catholic Christians are believers despite what the Catholic Church teaches, not because of what it teaches. To varying degrees, the Catholic Church teaches from the Bible and points people to Jesus Christ as the Savior. As a result, people are sometimes saved in Catholic churches. The Bible has an impact whenever it is proclaimed (Isaiah 55:11). Catholic Christians remain in the Catholic Church out of ignorance of what the Catholic Church truly stands for, out of family tradition and peer pressure, or out of a desire to reach other Catholics for Christ.

    At the same time, the Catholic Church also leads many people away from a genuine faith relationship with Christ. The unbiblical beliefs and practices of the Roman Catholic Church have often given the enemies of Christ opportunity to blaspheme. The Roman Catholic Church is not the church that Jesus Christ established. It is not a church that is based on the teachings of the Apostles (as described in the Book of Acts and the New Testament epistles). While Jesus’ words in Mark 7:9 were directed towards the Pharisees, they accurately describe the Roman Catholic Church, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!”

    *** Source Gotquestions.org
     
  2. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #2
    It's really easy to answer. First you have to believe in the concept of salvation. However, jump through all the holy hoops you want to and then cross your fingers because there is no evidence any particular action grants salvation.

    Based on my many years of experience, I'd say that while there is no way of knowing for sure but, live a good life, give of yourself, keep your fellow human beings in your heart as you move through this life and you'll have hedged your bets and have as good a chance of salvation as any of those holy rollers being controlled by their masters on this Earth. :)
     
  3. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #3
    Realistically, every religion is false. Funny part is, Catholicism was the first type of Christianity. All the Protestant sects came much later...
     
  4. Apple OC macrumors 68040

    Apple OC

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    #4
    it is hard to tell who gets invited to the Grand Ball ... according to the Jehovah Witness worshippers ... not many will be saved ... only them.
     
  5. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #5
    Jesus Christ didn't establish any church. He didn't even establish Christianity. It was created by men after his death. Catholicism isn't any more false than any other Christian sect.
     
  6. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #6
    Welcome to the PRSI. I don't know if you are new here, but I'll assume you are and try to save you some time.

    Almost every response you will receive will fall into one of the following three answer categories:

    (1) Yes. No.
    (2) No. Yes.
    (3) All religions are BS.

    Usually, when the question of the validity of Christianity is involved, the criticism will be religion-specific. If the validity of a non-Christian religion is involved, the criticism will be religion-general.
     
  7. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #7
    Do you ever give your opinion on the subject at hand, or do you only comment on the responses of others?
     
  8. iDisk thread starter macrumors 6502a

    iDisk

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    #8
    What is Church?

    My Friend your mistaken .....

    Many people today understand the church as a building. This is not a biblical understanding of the church. The word “church” comes from the Greek word ekklesia which is defined as “an assembly” or “called-out ones.” The root meaning of “church” is not that of a building, but of people. It is ironic that when you ask people what church they attend, they usually identify a building. Romans 16:5 says “… greet the church that is in their house.” Paul refers to the church in their house—not a church building, but a body of believers.

    The church is the body of Christ, of which He is the head. Ephesians 1:22-23 says, “And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.” The body of Christ is made up of all believers in Jesus Christ from the day of Pentecost (Acts chapter 2) until Christ’s return. The body of Christ is comprised of two aspects:

    1) The universal church consists of all those who have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink” (1 Corinthians 12:13). This verse says that anyone who believes is part of the body of Christ and has received the Spirit of Christ as evidence. The universal church of God is all those who have received salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

    2) The local church is described in Galatians 1:1-2: “Paul, an apostle … and all the brothers with me, to the churches in Galatia.” Here we see that in the province of Galatia there were many churches—what we call local churches. A Baptist church, Lutheran church, Catholic church, etc., is not the church, as in the universal church—but rather is a local church, a local body of believers. The universal church is comprised of those who belong to Christ and who have trusted Him for salvation. These members of the universal church should seek fellowship and edification in a local church.

    In summary, the church is not a building or a denomination. According to the Bible, the church is the body of Christ—all those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (John 3:16; 1 Corinthians 12:13). Local churches are gatherings of members of the universal church. The local church is where the members of the universal church can fully apply the “body” principles of 1 Corinthians chapter 12: encouraging, teaching, and building one another up in the knowledge and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  9. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #9
    I now understand your use of the word church. My point is that the Bible was written after the death of Jesus. Thus, whatever the Bible says, was written after Jesus and a variety of people decided what was to be included and not included in it. The writers, church counsels, church bishops, and the Gnostics created Christianity.
     
  10. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #10
    lol@religious people accusing another religion of being false.

    Pot. Kettle. Black.
     
  11. iDisk thread starter macrumors 6502a

    iDisk

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    #11
    I'm assuming you mean the New Testament? In any event ...

    Second Timothy 3:16-17 declares that “all Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” It is clear that the early church regarded the Old Testament as inspired Scripture. As 2 Peter 1:20-21 explains, “Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”

    But can this be equally applied to the writings contained in the New Testament? Were the New Testament writers aware of the scriptural nature of their epistles? Although this cannot be proven definitively, there is a fairly strong case to be made that they did. In 2 Peter 3:15-16, Peter writes, “Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable men distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.” Clearly, Peter regarded the writings of Paul as inspired Scripture.

    A further indicator that the New Testament writers understood their writings as Scripture is in 1 Timothy 5:18, wherein it is declared, “For the Scripture says, ‘Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain,’ and ‘the worker deserves his wages.’” While the first reference is taken from the book of Deuteronomy (25:4), the second is derived from the Gospel of Luke (10:7). Clearly, Luke’s writings are being viewed as similar in authoritative value to the Pentateuch. Luke’s writings are also here referred to as “Scripture.”

    In conclusion, there are good grounds for believing that the New Testament writers viewed each other’s writings as sacred Scripture, literally inspired by God – and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

    .................

    THE HISTORY OF CHRISTIANITY IS LOOOOONG TO EXPLAIN LOL ....

    IN REGARDS TO THE GNOSTICS

    The Gnostic gospels are writings by early "Christian" Gnostics. After the first century of Christianity, two primary divisions developed - the orthodox and the Gnostics. The orthodox Christians held to books we now have in the Bible and to what is today considered orthodox theology. The Gnostic Christians, if they can truly be described as Christians, held a distinctly different view of the Bible, of Jesus Christ, of salvation, and of virtually every other major Christian doctrine. However, they did not have any writings by the Apostles to give legitimacy to their beliefs.

    That is why and how the Gnostic gospels were created. The Gnostics fraudulently attached the names of famous Christians to their writings, such as the gospel of Thomas, the gospel of Philip, the gospel of Mary, etc. The discovery of the Nag Hammadi library in northern Egypt in 1945 represented a major discovery of Gnostic gospels. These Gnostic gospels are often pointed to as supposed "lost books of the Bible."

    So, what are we to make of the Gnostic gospels? Should some or all of them be in the Bible? No, they should not. First, as pointed out above, the Gnostic gospels are forgeries, fraudulently written in the names of the Apostles in order to give them a legitimacy in the early church. Thankfully, the early church fathers were nearly unanimous in recognizing the Gnostic gospels as promoting false teachings about virtually every key Christian doctrine. There are countless contradictions between the Gnostic gospels and the true Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The Gnostic gospels can be a good source for the study of early Christian heresies, but they should be rejected outright as not belonging in the Bible and not representing the genuine Christian faith.

    .........
    Question, is Jesus the Savior of your life? Have you decided to have a personal relationship with Him, and allow Him to full-fill your life and show you why your put here on earth?
     
  12. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #12
    Nope, and I couldn't be happier.
     
  13. Repo macrumors 6502a

    Repo

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    #13
    I lol'd.
     
  14. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #14
    Believe in it or go to hell seems to be the message I hear from many religions.
     
  15. iDisk thread starter macrumors 6502a

    iDisk

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    #15
    Well the truth is... Believe and Follow Jesus Christ (The Messiah who died for your sins and my sins and EVERYONE who has walked this earth sins) or Go to hell for eternity.

    It's really that simple.
     
  16. Repo macrumors 6502a

    Repo

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    #16
    It seems many religions believe in a nirvana-esque afterlife or reincarnation to some degree.
     
  17. Aduntu macrumors 6502a

    Aduntu

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    #17
    Where does the bible teach that man will burn forever in a literal place?
     
  18. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #18
    By preaching crap like that, evangelicals are doing more to turn people away from religion than recruiting people to religion. Religion should be friendly and welcoming. Instead, you put a hateful face on it and it makes people say "I don't want to have any part of this nonsense".

    And you know what I say? Keep up the good work. There's nothing more fun to watch religion slowly destroy itself. It might take a long time, perhaps longer than my lifetime, but it will happen. If religious people keep preaching hateful garbage like that, they eventually will turn enough people away that they become irrelevant.
     
  19. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #19
    I'm referring to the New Testament because Jesus is the topic. Bottom line is that the collections of writings in the Bible were written and edited by men. Most, if not all never even met Jesus. I can't see how Catholicism is any more false than any other Christian sect. Especially since it has the closest ties to the original sources (aside from Eastern Orthodox).
     
  20. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #20
    As I recall, the notion of the fires of hell derives from a passage in Revelation where St. John the Insane describes his vision of the judgement. What it describes is a lake of fire into which the souls not listed in the book of life shall be cast. From what I understand, it is not actually eternal torment as much as instantaneous immolation: your soul completely ceases to exist, which was a concept that the people in those days were terrified of.

    On the other hand, St. Byrne, patron saint of talking heads, famously wrote, "Heaven is a place, a place where nothing ever happens." How does that sound to you, an eternity of boredom? I think after an aeon or so, I would be after finding that lake.
     
  21. iDisk thread starter macrumors 6502a

    iDisk

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    #21
    Ask Christ into your Heart and he will show you then. Thats how much he Loves you, so ask Him :)

    This is an issue that bothers many people who have an incomplete understanding of three things: the nature of God, the nature of man, and the nature of sin. As fallen, sinful human beings, the nature of God is a difficult concept for us to grasp. We tend to see God as a kind, merciful Being whose love for us overrides and overshadows all His other attributes. Of course God is loving, kind, and merciful, but He is first and foremost a holy and righteous God. So holy is He that He cannot tolerate sin. He is a God whose anger burns against the wicked and disobedient (Isaiah 5:25; Hosea 8:5; Zechariah 10:3). He is not only a loving God—He is love itself! But the Bible also tells us that He hates all manner of sin (Proverbs 6:16-19). And while He is merciful, there are limits to His mercy. “Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon” (Isaiah 55:6-7).

    Humanity is corrupted by sin, and that sin is always directly against God. When David sinned by committing adultery with Bathsheba and having Uriah murdered, he responded with an interesting prayer: “Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight…” (Psalm 51:4). Since David had sinned against Bathsheba and Uriah, how could he claim to have only sinned against God? David understood that all sin is ultimately against God. God is an eternal and infinite Being (Psalm 90:2). As a result, all sin requires an eternal punishment. God’s holy, perfect, and infinite character has been offended by our sin. Although to our finite minds our sin is limited in time, to God—who is outside of time—the sin He hates goes on and on. Our sin is eternally before Him and must be eternally punished in order to satisfy His holy justice.

    No one understands this better than someone in hell. A perfect example is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Both died, and the rich man went to hell while Lazarus went to paradise (Luke 16). Of course, the rich man was aware that his sins were only committed during his lifetime. But, interestingly, he never says, “How did I end up here?” That question is never asked in hell. He does not say, “Did I really deserve this? Don't you think this is a little extreme? A little over the top?” He only asks that someone go to his brothers who are still alive and warn them against his fate.

    Like the rich man, every sinner in hell has a full realization that he deserves to be there. Each sinner has a fully informed, acutely aware, and sensitive conscience which, in hell, becomes his own tormenter. This is the experience of torture in hell—a person fully aware of his or her sin with a relentlessly accusing conscience, without relief for even one moment. The guilt of sin will produce shame and everlasting self-hatred. The rich man knew that eternal punishment for a lifetime of sins is justified and deserved. That is why he never protested or questioned being in hell.

    The realities of eternal damnation, eternal hell, and eternal punishment are frightening and disturbing. But it is good that we might, indeed, be terrified. While this may sound grim, there is good news. God loves us (John 3:16) and wants us to be saved from hell (2 Peter 3:9). But because God is also just and righteous, He cannot allow our sin to go unpunished. Someone has to pay for it. In His great mercy and love, God provided His own payment for our sin. He sent His Son Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins by dying on the cross for us. Jesus’ death was an infinite death because He is the infinite God/man, paying our infinite sin debt, so that we would not have to pay it in hell for eternity (2 Corinthians 5:21). If we confess our sin and place our faith in Christ, asking for God’s forgiveness based on Christ’s sacrifice, we are saved, forgiven, cleansed, and promised an eternal home in heaven. God loved us so much that He provided the means for our salvation, but if we reject His gift of eternal life, we will face the eternal consequences of that decision.
     
  22. Repo macrumors 6502a

    Repo

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    #22
    This is something humans tend to do in general; religion being a major contender.
     
  23. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #23
    So you're saying that will explain to me why Catholicism is false?
     
  24. RawBert macrumors 68000

    RawBert

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    #24
    One of the best things I learned when I went to church (many years ago) is that religion, church, acts, etc. will not save you. It's faith.

    Also, pretty much every religion says their way is the truth and everyone else is wrong and they will be judged by God. That's Funny.
     
  25. Aduntu macrumors 6502a

    Aduntu

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    #25
    I'll ask again, because you didn't answer my question. Where does the bible teach that humans will die and suffer forever in a fiery hell?

    Rom 6:23 doesn't say that the wages sin pays is burning forever in hell, it says the wages that sin pays is death.

    Eccl 9:5 doesn't say the dead are conscious that they will burn forever in hell, it says the dead are conscious of nothing at all.

    Again, where does the bible teach any humans will burn forever?
     

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