Is it actually possible to focus on SPECIFIC social and political issues WITHOUT DEFLECTION?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by LIVEFRMNYC, Aug 19, 2017.

  1. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    #1
    The title says it all. And YES, I've been guilty of deflection or playing the tit for tat game myself. But I try my hardest to check myself when I feel I'm leaning towards doing so. Sometimes when I catch myself doing so, it's completely my fault, but most of the time it's me being pulled into that from someone else doing it.

    Basically I'm sick off it. Especially since social and political issues actual affect people's lives. And since I'm not of any political party, nor religion. Me being black, I do sometimes have to throw in examples, when speaking on race relations. But there is also a fine line between examples and deflection. I have to make sure the examples have correlation with the topic instead of playing tit for tat.

    So is it actually possible for people to focus on SPECIFIC social and political issues itself, without speaking on non-related issues they have towards opposing sides?
     
  2. Zenithal Suspended

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    #2
    I blame John Podesta and Clinton. Oh, and JKCerda.

    I think it is. The above is a joke. Obviously. Painfully obvious if you know me. Some of the deflection arguments by some on here, whose names I'm choosing to not bring up, remind me of watching two little children argue over who gets the last sucker from the jar. :rolleyes:
     
  3. LIVEFRMNYC thread starter macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    #3

    IDK ... It seems people end up losing focus on the actual issues at hand and focus more on taking sides. I'm not just talking about here in Macrumors, I'm speaking globally.
     
  4. Zenithal Suspended

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    #4
    Yeah, I know. I'm painfully aware of how people behave on forums. It isn't an anonymity issue, either. Some sites have a strict code of conduct for their debate sections. It keeps it classy and concise. They're difficult to implement later on when there's too many people.
     
  5. fitshaced macrumors 68000

    fitshaced

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    #5
    I think you need to realise that an internet argument does not need a winner. People will read your posts and posts you are responding to and determine whether they agree or disagree. No need for deflection at any time. If it spoils a discussion because one poster is insisting on bringing a thread off topic then so be it.

    There are some very interesting discussions on here sometimes and some threads that are just a place to like opinions from some like minded people. For everything else on here, there can be far too much time and energy wasted and even reading them. People of different opinions might need their opinions changed but that's not going to happen on a forum where the other guy is always wrong.
     
  6. LIVEFRMNYC thread starter macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    #6
    I agree. But I'm more talking outside the forums, society in general.
     
  7. niploteksi, Aug 20, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017

    niploteksi macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    #7
    Sometimes it's hard to have a discussion without broadening ones perspective of a matter.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 20, 2017 ---
    I think this pretty much puts the finger on the spot. Discussions or arguments need no winner. Often it's simply a conversation or an exchange of ideas from different points of views.
     
  8. LIVEFRMNYC thread starter macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    #8
    Why isn't successfully making your point, whether agreed with or not, good enough?

    I'm not saying there has to even be a mutual agreement of any debate. But society seems to just completely refuse to grasp another's point of view, and is even prejudice of any opposing view, all based on them choosing a side.

    Or am I just being naive in thinking that could actually be reality?
     
  9. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Location:
    Red Springs, NC
    #9
    Deflection seems to be an overused word, any time someone else points out an ulterior motive.
     
  10. niploteksi macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    #10
    Actually I made a typo, thanks for pointing it out. I don't think discussions need a winner. I'll edit that.
     
  11. Technarchy macrumors 604

    Technarchy

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    #11
    Among the political crowd? No.

    Deflection is cheap, easy and it works
     
  12. samcraig macrumors P6

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    #12
    This whole thread is a deflection from talking about real issues ;)
     
  13. Plutonius macrumors 603

    Plutonius

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    #13
    Nope. People who can not accept another person's arguments or even support their own arguments will deflect.
     
  14. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #14
    I get that that's a problem. If we were a society focused on specific social and political issues, we probably would not have voted the way the majority (electorally at the top, popularly at grass roots) has done since about 1968. or lol at least since 1984. or... 2016.

    btw 1984 in many ways, not just Reagan's landslide re-election, was a watershed in American politics that went largely unnoticed and remains so to this day in some quarters that should have known better. Mondale getting 40% of the popular vote but only 13 electoral votes (Washington DC and Minnesota, his home state) was translated largely in view only of the electoral landslide, of course. The 40% chafing at the GOP's Reaganite view of a sunny morning in America was under that 525-vote pile of earth that had slid to Reagan. You can't really bury 40% of American opinion under anything short of nuclear winter. Plus there were a lot of "firsts" and "lasts" about that presidential election. The last time a bunch of northeast states went Republican. The first and so far only time a convention of either party had a roll call vote for Prez and VP nominee concurrently, there was so little opposition within the GOP at that time as to renomination of both its nominal leaders of the party. Imagine the chance of that today... for either major party.

    But moving along (since my opening statement in itself was a bunch of partisan redirections), the biggest problem now --in the real world-- is that the real world itself seems so driven by social media, which does invite us to be resolutely binary in our absorption and expression of opinion. How did Barack Obama's tweet with the kids in that window get over 3 million upvotes? Ask a righty and then ask a lefty.

    I've noticed that when I as a known leftie, but in a mood to be open-minded, happen to post stuff from conservative or religious publications, I don't get snappy hits back like I do when I cite from the NYT (or :eek: Vox): "another liberal rag, you actually cite that?" from my friends in here on the rignt. My friends on the left usually let pass without remark whatever I cited from a conservative outlet... lol sometimes I get a PM from a few people. In less well moderated forums I am accustomed to getting a string of unkind remarks about sources I cite when it's known I'm on the left but citing any right leaning sources.

    So what is all that about? It's resistance to not being binary. We say we want change but really we don't want our views of life disturbed by uppity citations from the "wrong" side of the aisle by a partisan. And we are alarmed if a partisan colleague so much shifts his weight temporarily, as in a rush hour train going around a curve...

    I had relatives used to live in a Westchester enclave where all the house deeds had restrictive covenants prohibiting sale to people of color. The kind of place where people breathed a sigh of relief when the new Egyptian ambassador to the US was "not really that dark" when he turned up renting a house in that neighborhood while the owners were away being ambassador to some place in Asia. Right, so one night just out of the blue I made some idle remark about that covenant while I was being driven to the train back to NY after dinner up there. Of course my comment was rebuffed by a flat statement that the covenants were illegal now and so not binding. Just about that time the van I was in slowed down noticeably as we passed a couple black kids, walking along with their backpacks of too-much-homework slung over their shoulders, chatting in the summer night, taking their time getting home. I laughed inside my head about the reflex of that deed owner, but had the sense not to laugh out loud since for all that time up there visiting, I didn't know how to get to the train station on foot... and some generous souls have very closed minds that are never gonna be open on certain subjects.

    What can we do to get reconnected "in here" --in online existence-- to a real world that still has some analog dials lying around? I don't mean the fake analog dials like there are now on some speakerdocks where you dial the volume up or down but it still jumps between discrete levels because... the engineer was born in the 21st century and analog is cosmetic-retro and binary is cheaper. I mean just a) can we dial it down a little in social media? and b) can we take some of those filters off? We might hear a soft voice offering a different view, and it might not even be a devil wearing a blue dress.
     
  15. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #15
    Deflection noted

    Plenty of times BOTH parties are guilty of basically the same crap to one degree or another so it's fair play to point it out
     
  16. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    #16
    the king of deflection has arrived. long live the king. I know you love to point out both parties will supporting your favorite guy. your also the king of mixed messages.
     
  17. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #17
    I see the wink but you're so wrong :D

    because deflection and even inability to focus on issues are the real issue, no? :confused:
     
  18. ThisBougieLife, Aug 20, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017

    ThisBougieLife macrumors 65816

    ThisBougieLife

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, California
    #18
    No, it's not actually possible. There will always be people who are more interested in scoring political points than in solving any real issues. There will always be those who try to steer the conversation away from the real issues so they can score said points and take the heat off the fact that they have no cogent counter-argument to present.

    Some people here are basically just walking mirrors.

    I always come to PRSI threads prepared with a few "Deflection noted"s and some "[quote framed sarcastically to my advantage]? Got it."s. I love those :)
     
  19. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #19
    Yeah but sometimes not when you do it.

    When you're trying to steer a four wheeler into a gap between two big rigs because another one's bearing down on your a$# trying to merge into interstate traffic too, and the only reason you're where you are is because the merge puts you into 70mph rush hour traffic, and your kid pipes up from the back seat with "Cut it out Mikey, Dad, Dad, Dad, he's doing it again, see?"

    I don't even call that deflection. I call it looking to get hammered when I get time. You only get away with it because you're too short to reach with that 2x4 i keep under the seat. and, recipes, and pepper GIFs. Sometime those won't be enuf. jes' sayin'. New people keep poppin' up in here. one of them probably ICE, you think?
     
  20. Plutonius macrumors 603

    Plutonius

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    #20
    And what would you consider yourself when it comes to the question of one liners and deflection ?
     
  21. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    #21
    Sarcastic in the extreme.
     
  22. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #22
    I LOVE hurling back the rocks thrown in the glass houses :D
    --- Post Merged, Aug 20, 2017 ---
    You guys can't handle it when it's pointed out your party/candidate is guilty of the SAME crap. :D
     
  23. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #23
    yeah but when we're driving in 2017 traffic on the freeway and you wanna pull over and hear confessions of mortal sins related to the summer of 2016 (aka the previous summer of love)?

    just there's a time and a place, right?

    maybe we should open a pinned thread called A Look Back (aka Lock Her Up) and you could pop in there once in awhile instead. Like one of those padded rooms you can actually rent (i heard) in NYC for anger mismanagement.. a safe place to lose it for half an hour.
     
  24. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2007
    Location:
    America's Third World
    #24
    Take extra care that those stones don't hit a sleeping dog.
     
  25. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #25
    or even a half sleepin' bee.
     

Share This Page