Is it OK to kill cyclists?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jnpy!$4g3cwk, Nov 10, 2013.

  1. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    Feb 11, 2010
    #1
    That is the provocative (to some) title of an opinion piece today:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/opinion/sunday/is-it-ok-to-kill-cyclists.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0

    Roughly the same advice I have given my friends and relatives.

    When a cyclist is killed in an accident, it is always the cyclists fault. Even when there is objective evidence to the contrary.
     
  2. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    Toronto, Ontario
    #2
    Does killing them when they ride up on the sidewalk or cut through pedestrians at a cross walk due to a red light count?

    Most cyclists I see have a blatant disregard for traffic laws and weave in and out of traffic/red lights and basically do whatever they want.

    The next cyclist who blows through a red light and almost runs me over is going to find some pavement without the assistance of a car.

    Did I mention that I hate cyclists?
     
  3. tunerX Suspended

    tunerX

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    Nov 5, 2009
    #3
    Depends on the circumstance. Between him in the middle of the lane, going 20MPH, and me with oncoming traffic around a blind curve at 45MPH... Definitely going to kill a cyclist.
     
  4. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #4
    No, you are perfectly allowed to kill a fellow human being if they disregard the law.

    If you're Judge Dredd. Otherwise, no.
     
  5. palmerc2 macrumors 65816

    palmerc2

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    Los Angeles
    #5
    Cyclists are so damn annoying. Turning left with the cars and cycling in the middle of the lane going so slowwww. Cycling on the street, even when they have their own lane they're right on the dividing line forcing cars to swerve into the other lane not to hit them. When I drive one I don't move over in the lane, luckily I'm a good driver and know exactly where every corner of my car is. I'll get about 1-2' away, then I look in my rear view mirror and see them shake their fist at me. I just laugh.

    Share the road? Share the costs!

    But no, it's not okay to kill a cyclist.

    "When you're a pedestrian, you hate cars. When you're in a car, you hate pedestrians. But no matter your mode of transportation, you hate cyclists."
     
  6. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #6
    :( This is why I won't take a bike on public roads. If I ever live near some good biking trails again, I will get one with dirt tires.
     
  7. tunerX Suspended

    tunerX

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    Nov 5, 2009
    #7
    Most cyclists obey traffic laws. The ones that don't are the bane to drivers. The 1 percent of cyclists who think that cyclists always have the right of way ruin it for everyone.
     
  8. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #8
    And even then, some localities have ordinances that allow cyclists to treat stop lights/signs as yields.

    Car drivers wouldn't know this and think they are breaking laws.

    I hate car drivers. As a cyclist and motorcyclist, I see way to many people texting or doing god knows what while driving. Irritates me to no end and makes me want to drag them out of their car.....especially after having quite a few close calls no fault of my own

    ----------

    Yes, good thing you are a good driver and play the game of getting close to a cyclist. Nothing could go wrong there:rolleyes:
     
  9. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

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    Location:
    NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
    #9
    I really enjoy riding my bike on city bike trails down in the city, I also enjoy riding my mountain bike on out of the way trails, its great fun.

    I feel that ever since humans invented this thing called the car. Why would anyone ride a bike? A car or truck is much better than a bike, AC, heat, Leather seats, comfy, quiet, radio, and you don't die in a crash with a pepsi can.

    That being said, I think most people on bikes think they have the right of way, and ignore stop signs and red lights, and think motorists should cave to their every will, because they wear stupid clothes and ride a mode of transportation that shouldn't be used as transportation outside of a 1-2 mile trip to the store and back. Then ride them on public rods full of cars and want to be catered to.

    Now, would I ever hit someone on a bike? NO, NEVER. It's this thing called a break pedal and paying attention, have I almost hit idiots on bikes ignoring red lights and stop signs? yes, but slaming the brake pedal helps with that and not killing someone. I also maintain as much distance from people on bikes as possible.

    However, there are some areas ,were idiots try to ride their bikes across state route intersections with traffic moving at 60-70mph, and one comes out in front of me, and despite slamming the brake pedal and I end up running the guy on a bike over anyway? I'm not gonna say " oh I feel so bad! I hit someone who ran 3 red lights and a stop sign across a major road packed with traffic going 70mph! " I'mgonna say " well, one last idiot in the world "

    That being said, I have ridden my bikes in the city before, ridden a pedal bike in Europe because cities are much more bike accessible then in America, and if my hotel is only a mile or two away from a cilent, I'll just buy a cheap 70 dollar bike, then give it it to some kid when I', done with it.

    So when I do ride a bike in a City, I am always mindful of red lights, passing zones, stop signs, yeild signs, and traffic. If someone thinks they are above the rules of the road because they are on a bike and gets killed? Good.

    Also, if your on a bike and your riding 15mph in the middle of a State Route, then give me the middle finger when I went the entire way into the OTHER lane to pass, **** you.
     
  10. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    Oct 27, 2009
    #10
    I dislike most cyclists too, but I'll never hit one on purpose. That's just outright assault or murder.

    Not everywhere. Here in NY, most DON'T obey traffic laws. Which IMO is not the problem. I see cyclists not obeying the laws but still riding with respect to their surroundings. It's the ones that don't have the respect for their surroundings that are complete buttholes.
     
  11. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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  12. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #12
    Yeah that is a problem here too. Although they are improving to be fair.
     
  13. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    The Misty Mountains
    #13
    When on a bicycle or motorcycle, the best policy is to regard everyone driving a car as someone trying to kill you. It's a good policy when driving a car, but especially so when on a cycle.
     
  14. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    Oct 27, 2009
    #14
    That's the truth. I ride my motorcycle as if nobody can see me. The only real defense I have while riding is to do my best to avoid a situation and the quick passing power my bike has to get away from a potential situation. And of course some high visibility gear.

    I ride my bicycle too every now and then. But I never wore a helmet for a bicycle until I started riding a motorcycle. It put things in perspective how a fall from a bicycle can be just as dangerous.
     
  15. Gutwrench, Nov 12, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2013

    Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    #15
    Two basic concepts when riding a bike (motorcycle):

    1. Ride as if you aren't seen.
    2. Consciously understanding counter steering.

    Many riders never come to understand #2.

    I enjoyed the benefit of riding in Northern California for years. The guy who built the Shoreline Highway / Panoramic Highway / Highway One owned a bike. I rode it hard a few times a week scraping the pegs in every turn.
     
  16. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #16
    http://nj1015.com/british-woman-gets-even-with-bicyclist/
     
  17. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    Scotland
    #17
    When I was a kid I saw the end stages of a cycling fatality (a kid on his bike got hit by one car, which bounced him into the lane of oncoming traffic, where he was struck by a second car, which in turn bounced him back in to the original lane where he was hit by a third car. I saw the last hit but really didn't understand what was going on until everybody slammed to a halt and I saw the blood. Since the cars were going 45mph, the kid was DOA). I hate to be a killjoy, but there's nothing funny about cars hitting cyclists. As a driver of a car, one is obliged to be responsible, and that means recognizing that sometimes other drivers, cyclists, pedestrians, animals etc. do the unexpected and thus one needs to be prepared. Instead, what I observe both in the US and UK - even among my family members - is a disturbing tendency to think about anything but driving responsibly. So you might blame cyclists for ignoring the rules of the road, but car drivers are responsible for avoiding collisions.

    Anyways, the real problem is that there are too few bike paths and walking paths. I do not drive, and thus I have to do a lot of walking. In both the US and the UK, provisions for pedestrians and cyclists always take a back seat to roads for cars. We have cycle lanes in my town, but cars are allowed to park in them. Imagine if bikes were allowed to park in the middle of roads.... A sensible solution to the problem would be to require both cycle and pedestrian lanes for every new road built, and to require where possible adding them to roads that are upgraded.
     
  18. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    #18
    Where I come from a bicyclists when on the roadway, with some limited exceptions, enjoys the same rights and duties, emphasis on duties, as a motor vehicle.
     
  19. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

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    NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
    #19
    Well I mean if you just feel like knocking over a cyclist on the sidewalk, or the crosswalk because you think he got to close to you, and you make him eat pavement.

    Is it ok if I see you crossing the road and just " Forget " what a brake pedal is?
     
  20. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    Aug 17, 2009
    #20
    The linked story illustrates the problem with bike paths: they are never "bike" paths, they are "multi-use paths", full of walkers, joggers, dogs, children – essentially, long, skinny parks. For a cyclist interested in getting somewhere or getting a good workout, they are a pale alternative to roads. They mostly do not go anywhere to speak of, and a bike rider has to negotiate a great deal of orderless traffic, so the bike rider will often reject the path because it is an unsuitable alternative.

    Drivers need to realize that driving is a real responsibility, not some kind of unalienable right that cannot be taken away. The nuisance factor cuts both ways: ride a bicycle regularly for a year and you will begin to see cars as being as much of a PITA as drivers see bicyclists as being.

    Of course, when a bicyclist is killed, we can always say it was because they were taking a big risk riding near cars: they gambled and lost. If they had been in a car, they would have had a ton more protection.
     
  21. macquariumguy macrumors 6502a

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    Sarasota FL
    #21
    Of all the incorrect things I've ever seen posted on the internet, that may be the most incorrect.
     
  22. wrkactjob macrumors 65816

    wrkactjob

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    London
    #22
    I have always found cyclist very friendly, even when a group of them have been holding up traffic for quite a while and I have had to drive past them closely at high speed I often see them waving hello in my rear view mirror.
     
  23. vpro macrumors 65816

    vpro

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    Jun 8, 2012
    #23
    I ride a lot.

    I ride a bunch and sometimes the "road-rage" like behaviour does transfer over to the bike paths I'm on, where angry-rushed cyclists would yell profanities at me for riding at my own pace and not in any of their ways etc, or walking my broken bike to the community repair shop, I almost get run over by cyclists on the paths. People just suck in general be it driver or cyclists, the world is just turning into a gong show really doesn't matter what sort of wheels, even bladders LMAO!

    Here drivers do try and attempt to run cyclists over on purpose. I think there is a real disconnect and blatant disregard for life itself really!?

    Just stop hating on one another already and seriously stay civil and calm, do the right and just thing no matter what pressure you are experiencing.

    Just chillax and everyone gets home in one piece - seriously !
     
  24. hallux macrumors 68020

    hallux

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    Apr 25, 2012
    #24
    I believe this is the case in many instances.

    What many fail to realize is that cyclists, while not considered a "vehicle" by many, actually DO have similar rights to travel lanes as motor vehicles do. That said, the laws do stipulate that they make efforts to allow for safe passage of a motor vehicle when possible and safe to do so. The laws also say that while it IS legal to ride side by side, if a vehicle wishes to pass the cyclists should go single-file.

    Many cyclists (I've started reading some cycling forums having bought a new bike this year) will interpret the laws in their own way and say that they should be able to ride left of the white line because they can, even if a suitable shoulder is available "because the shoulder is not the 'road' and we're allowed to ride as far right as possible on the 'road'."
     
  25. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    Aug 17, 2009
    #25
    This is kind of problematic is the bikes are properly positioned in the right third of the lane, because, to properly pass, the car will have to go left of center: two bikes side-by-side means the car will have to go further left, but will have half the travel distance to pass (the length of one bike instead of two). A single file of ten bikes would put a car left of center for over 70 feet.

    Bicyclists know the shoulder as "the garbage lane". If a shoulder is less than three feet wide and/or not immaculate and/or carries a lot of crossing traffic, it is not suitable for riding.
     

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