Is it the candidates or is it us?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mcdj, Sep 19, 2016.

  1. mcdj macrumors G3

    mcdj

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    #1
    This is the most polarizing, head scratching, face palming, flame baiting, name calling, muck raking election in ages.

    But is that because of the candidates? Or is it because we're the most twitter happy, bandwagoning, knee jerking, fear mongering, self centered NIMBY society in ages?

    I think this election, and the ones to come, are the new era. Debates are no longer debates. They're America's Next Top President. No candidate will ever win by a landslide again.

    Now that everyone has a smart phone and a "voice", even those who have absolutely no business weighing in on any issue, we will see every election going forward turned into a clown parade.

    Give me a cottage in Ireland next to a pub, a dog, and walking stick and I am outta here.
     
  2. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #2
    There is an airplane leaving JFK for Shannon tonight. Better hurry! I wish I could be on it.
     
  3. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #3
    I think the Internet and social media has dumbed things down quite a bit. Add to that reality TV and poor education and you get a crappy stew brewing. I don't know how we turn that around, but it is vital that we somehow do.
     
  4. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #4
    I need a JOB that is somewhat secure and I am out of there :D
     
  5. impulse462 macrumors 68000

    impulse462

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    #5
    no, people were always like that. social media just gave these people a voice
     
  6. TheHateMachine macrumors 6502a

    TheHateMachine

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    #6
    I feel like it is Trump but WTF do I know?

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
  7. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #7
    We get the government we deserve. Not we individually, but we as a whole.
     
  8. impulse462 macrumors 68000

    impulse462

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    #8
    trump is just a symbol or representation of it. if people didn't vote for him he'd be out already
     
  9. chown33 macrumors 604

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    #9
    Or it could be both.

    The options aren't mutually exclusive.

    Just sayin'.
     
  10. appleisking macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    George Carlin always said where do people think politicians come from, They come from us. Our society, our schools. We own the mess we are in. Whoever is elected, it'll be no ones fault but our own.
     
  11. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #11
    It's definitely us doing this to ourselves. I don't know how we turn this ship around and become more policy oriented and less (artificially?) ideological. "Engage brain before opening mouth" didn't keep us from spouting nonsense even back in the 60s. when no one imagined speaking in public --especially about candidates for president-- the way we all do now in "social" media. Today it's just faster, and meaner, and more vacuous. Why would that fact draw in any better class of candidates for office, I wonder.

    But I think Clinton might win in a landslide after all in this election. I don't see how else Trump would manage to launch his new venture, a whining network. He has to lose the election to get there... even if it takes a lot of dirty tricks by his own side to engineer his downfall.
     
  12. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #12
    I didn't know we all wanted all that in leaders we want to lead us with. And whatever happened to everyone having a voice? Looks like we really do want something other than a democratic republic, oh well.
     
  13. ActionableMango, Sep 19, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016

    ActionableMango macrumors G3

    ActionableMango

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    #13
    It's us. There are many articles out there about how we are getting more and more polarized.

    It is occurring so fast that I can distinctly feel it happening. I think one of the main driving forces is that when I was a kid, almost everyone got their news from a few select sources like the big three networks. Communication on political topics was face to face at work and parties, so inherently more polite and understanding.

    By contrast today we can get exceptionally targeted news that fits our worldview. We only have to see and hear that which confirms our existing politics. Communication on political topics has spread to the Internet, where everyone but you is an complete idiot and should just go and drop dead.

    ----------

    As a moderate with friends who are very left and very right, I've heard the following post-election statements:
    "Bush couldn't possibly have been elected. I don't know a single person who voted for him."
    "Obama couldn't possibly have been elected. I don't know a single person who voted for him."

    ...so it occurs to me that not only are people electing to seek out information that exclusively confirms their world view, but people seem to be surrounding themselves with other, like-minded people.
     
  14. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #14
    Don't get me wrong -- most politicians are sellouts, except for Trump who is the King of the Demagogues, which is much worse.

    But none of these people would get into office but for those who voted for them. If we got our noses out of goddamn Facebook and TMZ and Breitbart and Infowars, and stopped watching the idiocy of E! and Bravo and Fox "News", we might be a better-informed electorate.

    I mean, there's nothing wrong with entertainment, but when you want to know something about the news, don't get it from what your crazy uncle posts on Facebook.
     
  15. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #15
    Unless every one of your November votes is for a non-incumbent, you are contributing to the problem. And I mean every vote, from Senator on down to dogcatcher.
     
  16. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #16
    Do you regard Clinton as a stand-in for incumbency?
     
  17. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #17


    I think (and hope) that this election season is just one of those "Black Swan" events that come along every once in a great while.

    A great deal of the blame for this has to go to Donald Trump and the Republicans; although in fairness there are some problems on the Democratic side too.

    Trump arose through a curious combination of forces: The Republican field was ridiculously overpopulated at the beginning. Too many GOP Governors and Senators thought that the country was just aching for their particular brand of antediluvian Conservatism. And with support scattered in half a dozen different directions, Trump staked out an early dominating position that was impossible to overcome. If Senate Republicans had spent any of the prior eight years actually working to make Americans lives better, rather than lockstep opposition to literally anything Obama did, then there would have been one or two who would have had enough broad appeal to be a plausible center-right candidate. Instead, we got Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio.

    Barack Obama cast a bit of a shadow over the Democratic side of things. In the normal course of events, his Vice President would have been a natural candidate. But Joe Biden was a bit old and had suffered the tragic loss of his son. And Biden was enough of a pol; and had spent enough time in the Executive Branch, to not really want the job.

    Where were the strong Democratic Governors and Senators who could have made a bid for President? The short answer is that Democratic Governors and Senators became a bit of an endangered species over the past eight years. And most of the decent ones were really more interested in holding on to the job they had.

    I'm cautiously optimistic about the future. I suspect that Fox News might begin to return to something approaching a credible news organization. The Tea Party will begin to fade into the background.

    But I could be wrong. I've been wrong before.
     
  18. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #18
    Nope. The presidential election features four non-incumbents.
     
  19. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

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    #19
    Ahh yes, Aer Lingus, gate 5 by any chance? Just don't let the JFK parking attendant trick you into parking a Land Rover in the long term parking garage. It will not fit (vertically speaking). That was an odd trip.

    I think I heard more Irish language spoken during the plane's emergency instruction tutorial than my entire stay there. It's like you don't even have to leave the runway.
     
  20. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #20
    Ah yes, the great Irish airline. Founded by Colonel Charles Lindbergh's third cousin twice removed, Colonel Lingus. :p
     
  21. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #21
    That's such a "low-information voter" type post. You're just going from one extreme to the other.

    How about actually doing research into the candidates and making an informed decision? Not every single incumbent rep is bad.
     
  22. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #22
    Five. Don't count out that alt-conservative guy. He's a real choice for conservatives who loathe Trump and for Republicans who cannot bring themselves to vote for the other four.
     
  23. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #23
    Yeah I forgot all about the bald ex-CIA guy from Utah.
     
  24. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #24
    True, I'm sure there is a local city water commissioner somewhere that's not too bad. But every single senator and representative in Washington, DC should be thrown out on their ear.
     
  25. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #25
    I liked what he said about respect for the military, when he was talking so sort of naively about what his campaign staff said his logo represented, - the star and the stripe meaning respect for the military and that he liked that, having that right out there as visible part of his campaign. Not sure the logo is all that great but we are living in a time when the military is enduring a lot of changes, has endured a lot of combat deployments, and is not imo getting the support for the vets and families that it deserves if we're going to continue to rely on voluinteer forces. How Evan McMullin was talking sounded a lot more respectful than how Trump has spoken about the military, that's for sure.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 19, 2016 ---
    The only thing is, I think about some of the guys who resigned or were primaried out and I look at who has replaced them and I wonder if it was an improvement. Otherwise yeah it's a tempting idea and even though I largely liked the work done by my Republican Congressman (Gibson) who is retiring, I have to say I would have voted for his opponent with eyes closed this time around. I did vote for him one year. He's not particularly ideological but was still making too many party line votes imo in the last session. otoh he was rated 10th most moderate Republican in the House so I guess not too much room to move left with that scorecard anyway.
     

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