Is it time for Trump to give illegals an amnesty?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by dogslobber, Feb 26, 2017.

  1. dogslobber macrumors 68030

    dogslobber

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  2. ucfgrad93, Feb 26, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017

    ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    No, illegal immigrants don't deserve amnesty. I hope Trump doesn't do what Reagan did.
     
  3. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    Obama did not try. What makes you think trump will?
     
  4. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    Patently untrue.

    President Obama did try and offer limited amnesty to undocumented persons. His "deferred action" order specifically offered freedom from deportation to undocumented persons who met certain criteria. This order, however, was challenged in court and overturned by an Appeals Court. The US Supreme Court deadlocked 4-4 on the case, meaning the lower court's ruling stood.

    As President Obama did not have the legal power to directly offer undocumented persons a path to citizenship. That is something that can only be passed by Congress.

    Obama did favor the passage of the Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act of 2013, which would have addressed many of the inequities of the current immigration system. This legislation was passed overwhelmingly in the US Senate (84 aye; 15 nay). But it died when House Republicans refused to act on the measure.

    If you want to blame anybody, then House Republicans - who would not even allow a simple up or down vote on the matter.
     
  5. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    I don't think liberals deserve an amnesty.

    We will keep on harrassing them. :D
     
  6. jdillings macrumors 68000

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    So anyone who commits a crime more than 20 years ago should be exonerated just because they've successfully evaded the law for 20 years?
     
  7. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    If they have no criminal record aside from being here illegally I think we should make a one time call for amnesty and shut down the border completely as far as illegals go while instituting hiring practices that require citizenship verification.

    This would include any crimes though, dui, shoplifting, forging documents, getting welfare etc.

    Deporting these people isnt going to happen, some have American kids, so deporting the parents is pretty ****ed and if all they are doing is working and not breaking the law I'd say they'd be good candidates for citizenship.
     
  8. mgguy macrumors 6502

    mgguy

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    It's already been happening and will increase under Trump. Probably very few illegal aliens have not broken the law by, for example, using false identification, lying to a police officer, failing to obey a court order, driving unlicensed, filing fraudulent tax returns or not paying income taxes that are due, and falsifying official documents to get health care, government benefits, and other assistance for themselves or family members.
     
  9. yaxomoxay macrumors 68020

    yaxomoxay

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    They are breaking the law, ad perpetuum and everyday by definition.
    If we were talking about any other crime we would say that they are "unrepentant" criminals.
     
  10. Zenithal macrumors 603

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    It won't happen mainly due to the illegals working in the fields. Illegals have been tending our nationals largest crop fields since the late 1800s.
     
  11. BeeGood macrumors 68000

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    I don't think anyone "deserves" amnesty. However, I think the best approach is to give illegals some sort of temporary documentation that gives them time to go through a process (maybe an expedited one?) to gain some type of official status.

    This way, you're not cruelly breaking up families and you're not giving blanket amnesty. Everyone wins.
     
  12. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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  13. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    Well, Jeffrey Lord (one of CNN's resident Trump supporters) constantly compares Trump to Reagan, which I think is all kinds of BS, but it would make Lord's point I guess.
     
  14. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    I don't know about all of that:

    • Most illegal immigrants go to great extremes to avoid law enforcement all together, even avoiding reporting crimes committed against themselves. So they would have very few dealings with courts or local LEOs
    • Only US citizens are required to file a US tax return, so a non-citizen is not breaking any law by failing to file one
    • Immigrants typically use the ER, which doesn't require health care benefits (this is actually worse than handing them cash to go to a primary care doc)
    • I doubt there is very little documentation fraud going on. You don't have to resort to fraud when our inept government is giving out $180 million/year to people with no SSN.
    http://oig.ssa.gov/sites/default/files/audit/full/pdf/A-09-16-50159.pdf




    I'm pretty sure most illegals come here, enroll their kids in school, get a job and are extremely careful about flying under the radar. There is nothing but risk in engaging local or federal government.
     
  15. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    It all depends on what you are referring to as Amnesty. Let them stay here legally? I can accept that if they have been good citizens, have a job and pay taxes.

    What would not be acceptable to me is to give them citizenship. For that, they need to earn it like anyone who is trying to come here legally has to do.
     
  16. mgguy macrumors 6502

    mgguy

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  17. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    I stand corrected. Non-citizens are usually required to file a tax return, but only if you earn more than $10K/year ($20K for couples)

    https://www.irs.com/articles/who-has-file-federal-income-tax-return

    And, if you don't owe, there are no penalties for not filing. Since most low income earners get a refund, most illegals would incur no penalty for failing to file.

    https://www.efile.com/what-are-the-...-return-or-not-to-pay-taxes-IRS-penalty-list/
     
  18. mgguy macrumors 6502

    mgguy

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    I think you made typo mistake. Did you mean to say you doubt there is MUCH fraud goin on? If so, I believe you are wrong. See, for example, http://cis.org/IdentityTheft
     
  19. BeeGood macrumors 68000

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    I could be, but that document doesn't really explain, in absolute numbers, how many illegals are engaging in identity theft. Are we talking a few thousand out of 10 million plus?
     
  20. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 604

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    Consider the fact that even heinous crimes like rape have statutes of limitations. Also consider the majority of illegals that have been here for 20+ years, have contributed more than enough to become a citizen.
     
  21. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #21
    Any sources for the 'majority has been here for over 20 years'?
     
  22. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 604

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    Reread my post.
     
  23. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    Rape doesn't seem very analogous. It is more like kidnapping someone and keeping them in your basement. 20 years later the kidnapping may have reached its statute of limitations (or not as the case may be) but the false imprisonment is an ongoing thing.
     
  24. citizenzen, Feb 26, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017

    citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Surely (IMO) 20 years of productive, law-abiding contributions to American society deserves amnesty and citizenship. But looking to trump to provide that is barking up the wrong tree. That's not what he campaigned on, and it isn't likely to emerge from his tiny, cold, calcified heart. So you're in luck ucfgrad93, you got exactly the man you want running the country.
     
  25. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 604

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    I would agree, if the longevity of an illegal resident's stay was actually used against them. But it's actually used in their favor. Many get a cancellation of removal if they been in America longer than 10 years, when immigration picks them up.
     

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