Is minimum wage destroying the work ethic of our younger generations?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Zombie Acorn, Jun 5, 2010.

  1. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #1
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/05/business/economy/05teen.html

    As much as many people hate to admit minimum wage increases unemployment in tough economic times because businesses are reluctant to hire someone at a federally mandated rate when they might be more capable at hiring at a lower rate. This especially hurts teenagers who may not have the worth and experience of a mandated minimum wage. We currently are experiencing 25% unemployment in teen years, where exactly are they going to build their work ethic so they will be more productive when they grow up?

    I believe minimum wage is hurting the children. :(
     
  2. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #2
    Don't you guys have a lower minimum wage for under 21's or anything?
     
  3. Zombie Acorn thread starter macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #3
    Not to my knowledge, that would be a step in the right direction though. It would be a mistake to keep teenagers from gaining valuable work experience in character building crappy jobs.
     
  4. dinaluvsApple macrumors regular

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    #4
    i think hiring illegals is more damaging than the minimum wage.

    why bother paying minimum wage when you can pay next to nothing for a illegal to do the job?

    if you look at Scandinavian countries.
    they have some of the highest minimum wages but since their immigration is very controlled and hiring practices are strict, employers hire citizens so they dont have issues with teens looking for jobs.
     
  5. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #5
    The bad economy is hurting hiring, not minimum wage.

    I would agree with this.
     
  6. Zombie Acorn thread starter macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    Releasing the minimum wage for kids under 21 (who likely live with their parents) would allow them to become employed, how is the minimum wage not hurting non-experienced workers in need of experience? We have internships where its perfectly fine for kids to learn unpaid out of college with 5 digit debt hovering over them, yet we need to have minimum wage for someone fresh out of high school?
     
  7. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    Possible.

    Well not exactly as they have to let all other EU citizens in, and some of them are fairly poor still.
     
  8. dinaluvsApple macrumors regular

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    #8
    fairly poor compared to mexico, cuba and most of south america?
    i think not.
     
  9. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #9
    I never had any trouble finding a job as a teenager. We had minimum wage too. It's not as if it's anything new.

    Conservatives merely hate the minimum wage because it means they actually have to pay people a reasonable amount to work. Doing away with the minimum wage would merely create a new class of workers, with employers constantly looking to hire people under the age of 18. And you see no problem with that?
     
  10. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    Bulgaria is poorer than Mexico.

    Oh you certainly shouldn't get rid of it altogether. Its fairly new in the UK and made no difference to unemployment.
     
  11. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #11
    Here's an interesting take on the problem that has nothing to do with the minimum wage or illegal immigration...


    Teens are suffering from the downward push in jobs, said George Huang, an economist with the San Bernardino County Economic Development Agency. Huang said the lower paying and temporary jobs usually left for teen job hunters are now being taken by out-of-work adults. As a result, youth are having a difficult time finding work in the current economic climate.

    Master's degree holders are willing to take work requiring only a college degree, while college graduates are filling positions normally held by high school graduates.

    "What we're seeing is more educated and experienced people are taking jobs they normally would not take," Huang said. "It's pushing down on the people below them. Who's at the bottom of the food chain? I'm sorry, but it's the teenagers."

    That means young job hunters for the summer are having a difficult time. Sectors such as retail and tourism, usually strong employers of youth during the summer time, are still hurting from the recession, Huang said.

    One company that is hiring is Chick-fil-A in Chino Hills, which is conducting a job fair for various positions on June 12. The location employs many teens, but in the mix for the jobs are also college and graduate school students, said Ed Galvan, Chick-fil-A hiring manager.
     
  12. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #12
    I made $8.50 an hour working at the Office of Information Technology at my college and was working the maximum 20 hours a week a student can do. The wage didn't even really factor into how hard I worked, I was there to provide a service and I made damn sure I did the best I could. Hell I even rewired the place one night and vacuumed for an extra hour after I was supposed to close because I was sick of the place looking like a dump.

    If anything minimum wage is too low. This country needs a LIVING wage if its a full time job.
     
  13. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #13
    In GDP per capita, perhaps, but this may be misleading. Wealth distribution also must be considered. Mexico's economy concentrates wealth in the hands of a very few ultra-rich families, where Bulgaria's distribution is much more egalitarian. The poor in Mexico may in fact be much poorer than the poor in Bulgaria.
     
  14. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #14
    Fair point, but the Bulgarians also have (or will very shortly have as they are quite new members) a much easier time getting a job elsewhere in the EU as they have equal status with locals. That doesn't apply to the Mexicans.
     
  15. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #15
    This is exactly why I'm out of work currently for the summer. Though I might be working for UPS soon! :)
     
  16. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #16
    It's unsurprising that the American Enterprise Institute thinks the minimum wage is keeping teens out of work since the think tank has always been against the minimum wage, so this may be simply a priori reasoning at the AEI.

    That said, what may be a larger factor is what citizenzen pointed out, companies are able to hire more experienced people at the minimum wage, thereby pushing teens out of the job market.

    Although more experienced people may leave once the market improves, many of the places that hire teens are used to high turn-over rates and may decide hiring a college graduate or someone with similar experience is worth that risk.

    I recently spoke to a friend of mine who runs a large chain bookstore and he noted that a large number of his applicants were wildly overqualified and included a Masters candidate in Economics, more than a dozen college graduates, and several who had more than a decade of experience in the retail or sales sector. He also had a number of 18 year-old kids. Who he hires has little to do with the minimum wage.
     
  17. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

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    #17
    this indeed is the exact problem. the small business i work for always has summer seasonal help and the help that we're looking for more now is more experienced and educated rather than the teenagers that we used to get. why? because we know its possible with the current economy.
     
  18. abijnk macrumors 68040

    abijnk

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    #18
    This might help the unemployment rate in that age group, but do you really think it's going to help overall? The answer is no, it's not. If businesses can hire unskilled kids to do a job at a lower rate than they can hire an unskilled adult they are going to go for the kid. This would be great for the age group you are advocating for, but detrimental for the rest. You're just shifting the numbers around with no net gain.
     
  19. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #19
    I had no problem finding jobs when I was in high school, in fact, with the exception of McDonalds, where I worked for 2 months at 15 before I quit because I couldn't take it any more, all of my jobs throughout high school and college paid above minimum wage. And I'm not talking about any sort of skilled labor here, I worked at a grocery store then Target while in high school, and I wasn't a manager or any position of authority, I was the lowest on the totem pole at both places.
     
  20. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #20
    I'm not sure what kind of bias you have to have to look at the current economy and then go out to say its minimum wage of all things that is the reason why kids can't find work. Why would teenagers be able to find employment easily when the rest of America can't?:rolleyes:
     
  21. Zombie Acorn thread starter macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #21
    Again we aren't arguing whether minimum wage creates unemployment, its obvious to anyone who has a fundamental understanding of supply and demand that it does. What we are arguing is if employers should be forced to pay unskilled workers (teens) minimum wage if it is detrimental to their experience as adults.

    Our economy is no longer based around sweat shop jobs like it would have been in the past, there are no parallels to draw from the past.

    Unfortunately for 25% of teens looking for work that is not the case. You guys usually rally pretty hard against anecdotal evidence.
     
  22. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #22
    You're right.

    If I could hire someone to mow my law for a penny, there'd be another job created.

    Damn minimum wage.
     
  23. Zombie Acorn thread starter macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #23
    And if minimum wage was $500,000 an hour everyone would be rich.
     
  24. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #24
    Again, you're assuming that there's an advantage to hiring two people at $3.63 per hour then one at $7.25. Sure, two people have jobs, but now they have to double their hours to make the same ends.


    You haven't been in the LA garment district.

    Well, the problem isn't the anecdotal evidence, which *can* illuminate why something is happening—currently we only understand what is happening—but rather the a priori argument from the AEI. If teens are replaced by skilled workers in lower-rung jobs, this has nothing to do with minimum wage at all. In fact, if minimum wage didn't exist, I would argue that the laws of supply and demand would drive wages further down, making it increasingly difficult for educated workers to find jobs lucrative enough to continue supporting themselves and their families. This could create a downward pressure on all economic activity, furthering the recession.

    The minimum wage may be helping to keep the economy alive.

    Additionally, if the relationship between minimum wage and teens is so clear, what's the unemployment rate of teens in states that have minimum wages above the federal minimum? There's at least a case study or two.
     
  25. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #25
    But you have not gotten around the fact that teenagers historically have very high unemployment rate. 15-20% is pretty normal for that age group.

    On top of that the job market sucks right now. It sucks really bad. When U6 is around 17% and unemployment is at near 10% and still a worthless number due to the large numbers who have given up. I have ZERO problem with teenagers being screwed out of the work force. I am sorry but they do not need just a little extra cash when people who really need money can not find work.

    An employer will generally take some one who is a little older and more mature than a teenager even if they are very over qualified because it is a high turn over rate are any how. Those over qualified people will pick up everything faster and so they are cheaper to train.

    If you lower the minimum wage for teenagers you would damn well see total unemployment jump. I have ZERO faith that companies would not employ as many teenagers as possible for the fact that they cost less.

    Teenagers are bottom of the barrel in the job market and they should be the first one to be screwed out of a job.
     

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