Is police brutality getting out of hand?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by TedM, May 30, 2013.

  1. TedM macrumors 6502

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    #1
  2. chown33 macrumors 604

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    #2
    To answer the question of the title ("is it getting out of hand?"), I think you'd first need to establish the historical baseline rate. That is, what was the rate of police brutality before, so you can compare that rate to what it is now.

    With no idea what the baseline rate is, and no reliable statistics about the current actual rate (as distinct from anecdotal incidents in the news), I don't see any way to even pretend to answer the question. It's just a "post police brutality links and be internet-outraged over it" thread. I wouldn't want to deny you such a thread, only wish that it be titled more accurately.

    IMHO.
     
  3. TedM thread starter macrumors 6502

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    I'm not really a researcher, so I can't provide the information that you suggested. I would if I could. I figured we would start by examining cases that happened this year.
     
  4. chown33 macrumors 604

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    Teh Google knows all, sees all, tells all:
    http://www.google.com/search?q=police+brutality+statistics

    From the first page of results:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_brutality

    which links to (among others):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_brutality_(United_States)

    There are more links in the google results.


    I also wonder about the accuracy of using news sources to determine prevalence rates. Incidents could be kept quiet (for any number of reasons), while others could get much more coverage simply because they're more egregious or dramatic.

    One could use incidents of prosecution, or of lawsuit settlement, or reported to a neutral data-gathering body, although I don't think any of those would necessarily be accurate. I would fully expect an unknown amount of under-reporting.
     
  5. DaKKs macrumors 6502

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    #5
    It appears the US is not any better off on police brutality than Sweden is. The difference is that US police officers have more extensive rights to use firearms than our officers. Making shootings far more common. For our guys the preferred method of hurting people good old fashions beatings. I mean, why change a winning concept?
     
  6. zioxide macrumors 603

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    The biggest difference now is that it appears cops aren't taught to diffuse the situation, but to shoot first and asked questions later.

    Did anyone hear about that university student that got shot in the head by a cop a couple of weeks ago who was trying to diffuse a hostage situation?

    The cop didn't try to diffuse the situation at all, he just emptied his entire magazine and killed not only the perp but the innocent girl as well.
     
  7. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

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    That might be police incompetence not police brutality. This other thread has another incident:

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=17333258#post17333258
     
  8. TedM thread starter macrumors 6502

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    Yea I heard about that. Terrible stuff. The story I read said it was one of the last shots that got her too. That story raises so many questions, such as where were hostage negotiators. Back up? Nah just one cop who empties his mag? So instead of a one precision shot to the would be kidnapper he empties his mag killing both. Don't get it at all.

    I'll agree that this is a case of cop incompetence and not brutality though.

    How about this one though its from more than a year ago: http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/Berkeley-Man-Near-Death-at-the-hands-of-CHP-206494311.html
     
  9. anonymouslurker macrumors regular

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    #9
    Hollywood != reality
     
  10. rdowns macrumors Penryn

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    The cop entered the house not knowing there was a hostage situation. Huge mistake. He then found himself staring down the criminal's gun and emptied his.

    And there is no way they know what bullet hit the girl who was killed.
     
  11. quagmire macrumors 603

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    Not that cops mistake. It was who ever failed to properly inform him of the situation. All he had to go off of was there was a robber, not that there was a hostage involved.
     
  12. zioxide macrumors 603

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    Yeah, you guys are technically right that it's incompetence and not brutality, but unfortunately it seems many times these problems go hand in hand, and it also seems like these type of incidents are on the rise.

    Our society is clearly heading in the wrong direction...

    There wasn't a hostage situation until the cowboy decided to raid the house without backup. That's when the perp grabbed the girl.

    So many times we hear on the news about cops who give up their lives in the line of duty to save someone else's life. Those guys are heroes. This guy is the exact opposite. He put his life above the lives he was sworn to protect & serve. That cop is a coward.

    And the fact that he emptied his entire magazine shows he clearly didn't know what he was doing. You empty an entire magazine at a guy who's using a girl as a human shield? wow. Take away his badge and gun for life and let him go flip burgers.
     
  13. JohnLT13 macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    Its been out of hand for years, but with the camera phone its being recorded more.
     
  14. TedM, May 30, 2013
    Last edited: May 30, 2013

    TedM thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #14
    Though this is a true statement it doesn't apply to this topic. Feel free to do some additional reading to inform yourself on standard procedure: http://www.howstuffworks.com/hostage-negotiation.htm


    This could be true, but it would still be a police mistake. If he wasn't informed maybe its not his fault. But it for sure is someone in the departments fault.

    Forensic evidence confirmed 1/8 shots fired hit the girl and was fired from the police gun.

    Here is the news article for people who don't know the issue: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/19/n...asion-had-extensive-criminal-record.html?_r=0
     
  15. Shrink, May 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2013

    Shrink macrumors G3

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    #15
    You may well be right, but I would suggest that the scientific requirement of establishing a baseline recommended in Post# 2 is really a serious requirement to ascertain whether things are getting worse, better, or staying the same.
     
  16. zioxide macrumors 603

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    If we're trying to do a legitimate study for a university or something, then yeah, most definitely. But we're just having a discussion on an internet message board. ;) It's just my opinion, but at least in my opinion it seems to be getting worse. The actual numbers could be getting worse, or it's just the age we live in where the media reports every little story skewing the perspective.

    I'm guessing somebody somewhere has done a study on this before which would help us come up with a baseline, but unfortunately I don't have the time to search right now.
     
  17. smithrh macrumors 68020

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    Sigh....

    First disclosure: I have LE in the extended family.

    Second disclosure: I was pallbearer for another LEO in the family (natural causes, not line of duty)

    Having said that, I am uncomfortable with how things are today with the police. In decades past, it would seem that you would have to be an agitator or minority to get negative police attention, now it can be anyone, and basically for no reason at all.

    I've been verbally abused by one cop when I made a joke in a sports stadium - it was totally innocuous comment, but one of two cops went basically nuts, put on his "game face" and turned up the nasty. His partner (luckily for me) in turn got in the other cops face and asked him what his problem was. Whoa... Luckily I could just walk away there while the second cop settled down the first one.

    Near where I live (*very* near), there was an incident where a cop pulled over two guys, and baton'd them each dozens of times for no particular reason. It was on dash cam, but the officer was smart enough to purposely turn off the audio mike before applying the beating. Supposedly the cop "feared for his safety" but backup was just a minute or seconds away, so he didn't just wait, he started clubbing.

    One night while driving home, a cop pulls out and tails me within 10 feet for several miles - close enough where I was very close to calling 911 and complaining, or perhaps I might have just pulled over and asked him what the <bleep> he thought he was doing. I often wonder if that was actually the same officer as I mention above, and if I would have been the recipient of his anger.

    Taserings, beatings, retaliation... yeah, it's happening. More? FBI probably knows.

    Police state? No, not quite yet. But I was getting nervous when there were various bits of legislation out there trying to make the recording of police a crime. Most of that's been thrown out, but that's chilling, since one of the ways we can protect ourselves from over-ambitious police is to electronically document what they do.
     
  18. Shrink macrumors G3

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    Point taken...:D
     
  19. TedM thread starter macrumors 6502

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    I think what bothers me the most is a lot of the dash cam footage of these events "malfunctions" so we can't see what really happened.
     
  20. iMikeT macrumors 68020

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    In short, police brutality is getting out of control in the militarized police state we live in.

    I also think that any number reported is low as I would think a lot of cases involving police brutality in severely under reported. Cops have a way of protecting their own brushing incidences under the rug.

    The only way to prove anything against the police is to record their bad acts. So keep those cameras rolling!
     
  21. Michael Goff macrumors G3

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    #21
    And then you get taken to court for recording them without their permission ...
     
  22. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

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    Is brutality getting out of hand, as in epidemic proportions? No, I don't think so. Do you have any studies supporting the claim?

    I also disagree with the notion California a militarized police state.
     
  23. Tinmania, May 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2013

    Tinmania macrumors 68040

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    #23
    I would say the police have definitely gotten more militarized: both in equipment and philosophy. It's much more about shouting out control phrases than doing anything remotely like old Andy Taylor would have done.

    "DO IT NOW!!! DO IT NOW!! DO IT NOW!!!!" If Aunt Bee is unaware what she is supposed to "do" or doesn't understand why.... out comes the taser.

    Michael
     
  24. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Perspective is the key word in the OPs post. Without a healthy dose of it, one could conclude that police brutality is getting out of hand.

    However, looking beyond this last year—and from my humble POV—police brutality has been a part of life as long as I can remember, and does not feel any worse today than at other times in my life.

    So I too would like to see this issue quantified and not simply be based on one's feelings. I also agree that the proliferation of cameras can make it seem as if these incidents are occurring more often, when in reality they are merely being recorded more often.
     
  25. xShane macrumors 6502a

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