Is Religion Dying? (and is that good or bad)

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Mac'nCheese, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68040

    Mac'nCheese

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    #1
    I don't want to get into a conversation right now about whether or not SHOULD religion die, just to see if people think it is. I think the USA is getting less religious (which is fine with me) but some parts of the world seem to be getting more religious (and, for the most part, it's bad because they aren't just getting more religious but they are more extreme and violent). What say you (try and keep it civil)?
     
  2. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

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    #2
    I think the people who are culturally religious but don't really believe it are getting out. That's probably a good thing because then the people that remain are more likely to actually follow what their religion says which should cut down a lot on the issues that have been prevalent in some churches (like the abuse that happened in the Catholic Church).
     
  3. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #3
    I don't know if religion is dying, but I think as a society we are using judeo-christian ethics less as an underpinning to the laws we right. I believe as a society we function best secular everywhere but in our homes and our churches.
     
  4. Falhófnir macrumors 68030

    Falhófnir

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    #4
    I think religion is reverting to the older pre-Christian style of being almost incidental rather than a core part of people’s lives. For most of history, religion was only important/ observed at important times (either big celebrations like harvest or latterly Christmas, personal events like marriages, births and funerals or specific times of the year like the equinoxes) for the rest of the time, people were too busy to, say, go to church every Sunday. People will probably keep an element of their faith, but it will become less and less defined by organised religion and more of a personal thing once again.
     
  5. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #5
    I think there's little doubt that religion is on the decline. The problem I found with pretty much all the 'religions' is that the become too entrenched in the cherry picking, and the "this is THE answer", "this is the word for word TRUTH" thinking.

    If you look at a lot of religious stories and interpret them as metaphor; often a simple, more basic Truth is found. One that isn't dependent on which God(s) you believe in or how the universe unfolded. In a couple <ahem> more popular religions you'll often find it's the ego of men who put words down like abomination, infidel, or wicked. ... It is also men that cherry pick passages using these words as a way to divide and control, rather than extend the overall message of community and caring for your fellow human.
     
  6. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

    TonyC28

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    #6
    Could human knowledge and learning have to do with the decline of religion? A few hundred years ago you could explain things with religion or faith, but we know so much more (better) now.
     
  7. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 604

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #7
    In the UK I’d say it is. Churches at least are closing all over the country as the older generations are dying off and younger people tend to be more clued up in the digital age. Sikhs, Hindus and muslims remain religious in their selective communities but as a country I think religion is far less followed than 50 years ago. I’m not particularly sad about that personally.
     
  8. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #8
    Religion is down, spirituality is up. The two are not the same.

    FWIW nearly 400,000 people identified themselves as 'Jedi' in a UK census. Love the British sense of eccentric humour.
     
  9. Rum_Becker Suspended

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    #9
    It depends on what religion you are talking about but for the most part religion is far from dying. I'm an atheist but lately I feel more threatened by the regressive left than Christians groups. I use to make fun of creationists for denying science but a large part of the atheist community do the same with the 150 different genders they believe in, some even believe that biological sex is a social construct.
     
  10. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #10
    Well just as long as you don't believe it's a biological binary construct then we can agree. But this is about religion (which is a trickier topic) than the biological combinations that influence genitalia expression.
     
  11. darksithpro macrumors 6502a

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    #11

    Ah, the truth comes out. They self segregate from the indigenous population. Fascinating how well that multiculturalism is working over there.
     
  12. Rum_Becker Suspended

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    #12
    I agree, gender is not binary, there are some that have genetic/physical anomalies but they are a small minority even in the trans community.
     
  13. Mac'nCheese thread starter macrumors 68040

    Mac'nCheese

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    #13
    Absolutely. Scientology, which is really a cult but let's say for now its a legit religion, has been on a sharp decline since the internet was invented by Al Gore. People got to read how bat **** crazy the religion really was and read all about the lies that their founder told.
     
  14. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #14
    Yah I don't think spirituality is dying. There's more resistance to religious leadership that seems short on the golden rule --or at least short of some spirituality-- and long on hypocrisy though, which may be why churches keep encountering financial problems, and consolidating or closing houses of worship.

    We might be tiring of some of the since-1990s political lean by the right towards establishing Christianity as America's religious foundation of our laws -- despite the full language of the First Amendment with respect to religion, i.e. both the establishment and the free exercise clauses.

    On the other hand, even some mainstream and left leaning people in the USA find the stridency of anti-religionists a bit over the top. There are believers who are not hypocritical, who do believe, who practice their faith without trying to impose it from the podium of a town hall meeting, and without trying to encode their sectarian beliefs into American law . The expression of religious faith is more than a privilege here, it's a guaranteed right. It's precious to those with ancestral memory of a political suppression of faith. Not everyone who practices a religion in the USA is even an unwitting advocate of an American theocracy.

    We in the states will likely become more in future like some other countries with multicultural traditions including accommodation of multiple religious practices... finding workarounds when secular and religious laws might otherwise collide. We've already been like that if we are, for instance, Jews or Muslims, finding ways to be observant and yet run a business or get where we need to be on days or times set aside for our sectarian religious obligations.

    Now, the Supreme Court having reminded us lately of the free exercise clause in a few cases, it seems we may need to be more that way --looking to create and accept workarounds-- if we are members of some larger groups, i.e., agnostics / atheists and members of assorted Christian denominations. Of course it means some compromises on all "sides". In the USA we've gotten a little out of practice on things like compromise and a "live and let live" attitude though.

    Could be a bit of a bumpy ride for awhile longer. The matter of how some of us regard issues related to gays and transgender, for instance, could take a lot of work by not only the courts but citizens trying to be good Americans and good practitioners of the values of their own religious beliefs, where secular and religious concerns may conflict.

    First we have to want to try to find a way to work through conflicts, then follow through on the details. There's not much by way of publicized examples we're given that emphasize that approach to things. The media bring us much more about zero sum games, and winning. That's not especially helpful in any sort of conflict resolution. We need to hear more about (and to encourage) better leaders, and try to be more constructive in working together to resolve differences in ways that don't feel mean spirited or exclusive.

    It's not going to be easy. We used to have a kind of can-do attitude. We can probably fish it out and deploy that again if we make an effort. Otherwise we'll probably end up like any other country with groups that become xenophobic of each other and forget how to get along: viciously self-destructive. Self-destruction is never an isolated thing, someone else always pays too. We don't have to go there but it can be the default when no one bothers to work towards a shared goal of ability to pursue American dreams side by side.
     
  15. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

    TonyC28

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    #15
    Thank ___ for Al Gore!
     
  16. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 604

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #16
    I think you’re twisting that to suit your own narrative as usual.
     
  17. WarHeadz macrumors 6502a

    WarHeadz

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    #17
    Orrrrrr maybe they believe in 2 genders and acknowledge that some people suffer from a condition where their brain doesn't match their plumbing. Because, you know, science:


    Here's a link.
    http://bigthink.com/mike-colagrossi...ign-with-rather-than-what-they-were-born-with


    But sure, keep calling the left "regressive". Science is on our side.
     
  18. Falhófnir macrumors 68030

    Falhófnir

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    #18
    Nah I think it’s pretty universally accepted at this point that there’s an issue with religious and cultural ghettoisation in London and parts of other UK cities, the tenet of multiculturalism really has broken down to factionalism at this point. People of immigrant backgrounds are either fully adopting white-British culture(s) or else staying within their own “communities” (ghettos) and not mixing with others or engaging with wider society.
     
  19. shinji macrumors 65816

    shinji

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  20. The-Real-Deal82, Jun 6, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018

    The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 604

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #20
    My point about ‘communities’ wasn’t in relation to where people live but more to do with associations. There are troubled areas in certain cities in the UK and the biggest example of that is among black Christian’s in Greater London at present in regards to gang and knife crime. In my opinion that issue is more related to poverty than religion or ethnicity. You can’t always blame one particular religion or culture as its human nature for us to associate with those of similar backgrounds etc.

    America is probably the best country to scrutinise due to the fact it’s a country created on immigration and multiculturalism.
     
  21. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #21
    Who are the regressive left and how do you feel threatened by them?
    --- Post Merged, Jun 6, 2018 ---
    It’s hard for me to say living in the US Bible belt with a mega church on seemingly every corner filled in by bunches of smaller regular size churches in between. I need to see some statistical trends, but if I was to guess I’d still say it is declining and that is great. Here is why:

    To be clear I’m referencing organized religion with specific doctrines, rules, regulations, pushing wishful narratives of salvation and damnation. This is right out of the early beginnings of humanity when we did not know squat, yet Father XYZ on the corner can produce a book of rules to get into heaven along with specificity about what God thinks about and deals with sinners. It is preposterous, that we as a species have such a hard time dealing with our certain mortal demise, that we need to delve into these kinds of self comfort exercises, even though a good number of us continuously break the rules. No problem, just admit you screwed up and are sorry, and you are good to go.

    Be suspicious of anyone who hands you God’s rule book.

    However I will separate organized religion with their rule books, from vague generalized spirituality, of which I am guilty of leaning towards. It’s a sense that something is going on behind the gray curtain of this world along with a desire for their to be meaning in conscious existence, along with an opportunity for however you want to describe it as spirit, entity, consciousness to continue. The key word in this last statement is desire.
     
  22. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #22
    Religion was invented by man to explain why things happen, basic rules of society, and even story telling.
    All of which has been replaced by vastly better science, laws, and Shakespeare.

    The social and spiritual aspects are still IMHO very valid to help people and groups have great social events and deal with hardship.

    When individuals take advantage of "the good word" for personal gain or control reasons is abuse and brings out the worst of humanity. Humans unfortunately can be easily turned to sheeple.

    Thus, Religion value depends on the people who use it.
     
  23. Strider64 macrumors 6502a

    Strider64

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    #23
    I think religion isn't dying, but slowly going into the background in countries that have made great advances in technology and science. Well at least my that is my opinion. On a personal level I don't be in a personal God, but of a spiritual umbrella that engulfs everyone. Something in the order of Einstein's view of religion. I was born a Roman Catholic, but lost all respect for that religion, when my mother who went to church on every Sunday, made weekly donations from the church envelopes that they had mailed her and didn't miss any Holiday masses went unnoticed by the church when she took ill and eventually died. My grandfather (my mom's dad) work as a custodian (called janitors in his day) for a Catholic School/Church worked 7 days a week and was at the beck and call of the priests 24/7. Which meant he had to get their paper or what other stupid errand that they were too lazy to do themselves, made "emergency" repair calls whenever they thought something needed to be repaired no matter what time or day it was. Then after 40+ years of cleaning and doing their grunt work gets a cheap gold (I don't think it was even real gold) watch and a boot out the door as a retirement package/Thank You for you service.
     
  24. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #24
    Religion isn’t dying world wide but in some countries. So there will be a bigger and bigger gulf between still religious countries and the those where people leave religion. It will lead to more conflicts, as already seen today.

    Here the cath. church is loosing around 1% members a year ! And many active members are already quite old.

    In German speaking countries around 40-50% of priests reach retirement age within the next 7-10 years.

    Without a steady supply of native language speaking priests a religion becomes doomed. Many smaller parishes have now some polish or even Indian priests with non-adequate german just to fill the ranks.
    I see the brick wall for the Church here around 2030 when the active member generation becomes to old to do the work and most regular visitors of the church die.
     
  25. mudslag macrumors regular

    mudslag

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    #25
    For some people, religion goes to far

    Jesus is my copilot lawyer


    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...tody-child-religious-debate-1.4693154?cmp=rss

    Couple refused legal aid, advising witnesses 'it was their lawyer Jesus Christ asking the questions'

    The couple spoke in tongues in court to a stuffed lion who they claimed was giving them direct counsel from God.

    They rejected legal aid, preferring to advise witnesses "it was their lawyer Jesus Christ asking the questions through the voice of the parent."

    The battle was for custody of their baby — who the mother wants to rename Jesus JoyoftheLord.
     

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