Is the stock market ruining the country?

MacNut

macrumors Core
Original poster
Jan 4, 2002
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CT
Corporations worry more about investors and the bottom line vs quality and employees. They will fire people to save money, drive up the price of goods to make investors happy. But who loses, your average american who is paying for it in the end. So does the stock market help the economy or make it worse? If the only people that can afford the services are those invested in the company.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,986
The religion of "The Market" as the be all and end all of human existence is ruining humanity, not just the USA.

Shock Doctrine Neoliberalism, AKA "Globalization" is a cancer and it's clear to see. The only reason why the USA gives a **** now is our leaders never expected it to boomerang back to us, but the architects are long gone from power (this is 40s-70's era stuff) and none of the idiots in charge now understood that safeguards that were in place were torn down chasing this pipe dream down the rabbit hole.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

macrumors 604
Oct 27, 2009
7,432
8,605
Projections(which mostly worthless) are treated like financial quotas, and the average person gets the raw deal from it. So YES, it's ruining the country or the potential this country really has.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,986
Its not. Globalization has lifted billions out of poverty.
And pushed just as many into slave labor conditions around the world. It is the very act of allowing corporations to shop around sweatshop labor to wherever the cheapest labor prices are, then abandon those countries when the next one comes along to slash worker protections further than the last.

Take a look at Catapillar's intentional overproduction capabilities around the world. They spent the better part of a decade threatening their workers to accept **** conditions or they would pick up and leave because they had more factories than they needed, which was intentional. This is par for course with multinational corporations. No allegiance to their countries, workers, or humans in general, just the almighty dollar.
 

mobilehaathi

macrumors G3
Aug 19, 2008
9,344
6,213
The Anthropocene
No, no, no. A capitalist economy serves to enrich everyone. It is always fair. Any incidental concentration of power and money is in the best interest of everyone.

I smell a pinko.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

Eraserhead

macrumors G4
Nov 3, 2005
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UK
And pushed others into it.
For sure, there have been losers as well as winners. I would estimate the number of losers at something like 100 million, which is around 1/10th or less compared to the number of winners.
 

shinji

macrumors 65816
Mar 18, 2007
1,305
1,497
Nope. If a business needs cash to expand, it's either sell equity in the market or take on debt. Apple wouldn't be where it is today without the market, and neither would tons of other major employers and the companies they depend on.

It's easy to look at the abuses and downsides and say the whole thing is toxic, but it's not. The stock market has a purpose beyond that, and it's too bad scary headlines deter people from it. If you don't own any stocks at all, even in funds, then I wish you luck saving for retirement.
 

Eraserhead

macrumors G4
Nov 3, 2005
10,300
10,365
UK
No, no, no. A capitalist economy serves to enrich everyone. It is always fair. Any incidental concentration of power and money is in the best interest of everyone.

I smell a pinko.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Of course you are right that capitalism is far from perfect, however capitalism, as applied to the real world, has lifted billions of people out of poverty.

And pushed just as many into slave labor conditions around the world.
Source? And you've got to prove more than developing world factories being a bit unpleasant as you've got to show that they are worse than subsistence farming, which is usually pretty brutal.

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Take a look at Catapillar's intentional overproduction capabilities around the world. They spent the better part of a decade threatening their workers to accept **** conditions or they would pick up and leave because they had more factories than they needed, which was intentional. This is par for course with multinational corporations. No allegiance to their countries, workers, or humans in general, just the almighty dollar.
I'm sure this happens quite a lot, but it isn't universal.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,986
Source? And you've got to prove more than developing world factories being a bit unpleasant as you've got to show that they are worse than subsistence farming, which is usually pretty brutal.
NAFTA, Mexico.

Venezuela (one American Billionaire is using the market to make then entire country default on it's debts).

Anywhere that Big Oil goes.
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Original poster
Jan 4, 2002
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Ok, so what were people in third world countries doing before they were "pushed" into western factories? Were they in occupations where they earned more or less?
Isn't America turning into a third world country now?
 

vrDrew

macrumors 65816
Jan 31, 2010
1,317
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Midlife, Midwest
Neither the stock market nor corporations in general are responsible for America's social and economic woes.

We - the voters are. If we pressured our legislator and lawmakers to do what was best for us - as citizens and as a nation - then the would right laws and regulations to control the worst impulses and actions of business.

Take taxes: The reality is that the personal income tax rates on corporate executives and investors are at historical lows. But rather than inch those rates back up a point or two (to where they were during the Reagan years) - we whine and moan about deficits. And cut spending on vital infrastructure projects and unemployment benefits.

Same with employment law: things like vacation pay; minimum wages; and worker rights. Over the past couple of decades we've gutted them. With the result that big corporations - from Wal-Mart to McDonalds pay part-time employees starvation wages.

We have the power to tell our representatives what to do. Don't blame corporations or Wall Street: its our own fault.
 

anonymouslurker

macrumors regular
May 16, 2012
180
614
Isn't America turning into a third world country now?
It always makes me laugh whenever I read anybody saying this, and makes me wonder whether the person who says it has ever been to an actual third world country.

Have you?

I have.

America is far from a third world country, and anyone who has actually been to any, would know what a ridiculous statement that is.

It sure does sound good and scary, though.
 

hulugu

macrumors 68000
Aug 13, 2003
1,819
10,200
quae tangit perit Trump
To a point, yes.

Too many companies put the entire value of the company into hitting a target to keep the stock up and treat the stock market as a rational feedback system they can manipulate.

The idea of value to shareholders is in long-term investments and profitability, but too many managers are driven by short-term bonuses and therefore try to manipulate profitability to make their numbers. This means that managers can gut a company and run it into the ground while making millions in bonuses and that the stock market valuation of a company often seems irrational.

Apple and Amazon's stock provide a fairly clear view of the irrationality of the market. And, that's before we get into the deep weeds of the market's internal systems, which strike me as perverse.
 

satcomer

macrumors 603
Feb 19, 2008
6,289
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The Finger Lakes Region
I always felt that public companies get squeezed and their stock price downgraded if they don't have ever increasing profits from quarter to quarter! This is what is wrong with today's public trading and the companies themselves.
 

impulse462

macrumors 68000
Jun 3, 2009
1,697
2,203
The stock market gives everyone an opportunity to become owners of the largest companies on earth. That's a powerful concept.
Pure propoganda. Someone buys 2 shares of google: all of a sudden they are so powerful.

To answer the question though, no I don't think the stock market is ruining the US. The people who ruin it are greedy.
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Original poster
Jan 4, 2002
21,542
7,801
CT
The stock market gives everyone an opportunity to become owners of the largest companies on earth. That's a powerful concept.
The only people that really have a say are those with a lot of shares. These are the people running the companies. Not the board or executives. Don't get the big investors angry or they will cash out and cause the value to plummet. So why give shareholders so much power?

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It always makes me laugh whenever I read anybody saying this, and makes me wonder whether the person who says it has ever been to an actual third world country.

Have you?

I have.

America is far from a third world country, and anyone who has actually been to any, would know what a ridiculous statement that is.

It sure does sound good and scary, though.
How many people are so far in debt that they are virtually poor. And what caused that. Wall Street.
 

shinji

macrumors 65816
Mar 18, 2007
1,305
1,497
So why give shareholders so much power?
Because the shareholders, literally, own the company. If the stock market didn't exist, and every company were privately owned, then it would still be the owner(s) of the company who held that power.