Is The U.S. In Serious Trouble?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Huntn, Oct 18, 2016.

  1. Huntn, Oct 18, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #1
    The short answer using the benchmark of being able to act in a cohesive manner, with leadership able to carry the country forward, the answer is yes, we are in deep ****.

    It may not surprise you, but I blame the GOP. :p Instead of acting like responsible adults and accepting that they lost, they adopted as their number one goal of making Obama a single term President (they said it) and then drew a line in the sand, refused to compromise, and rejected proposals that Obama made, some things that normally Republicans would like. At least eight years have been wasted doing practically nothing except fighting among ourselves. This is while our competition in the world moves ahead.

    Speaking of the Republicans, look at who ran for the GOP nomination for the last two Presidential cycles. Where any of them inspirational? :rolleyes:

    Finally, I've said this before in this forum, but as long as we allow gerrymandered districts, and have Americans vote the way they are voting, putting idiots sub-standard people in charge, whose goal is something other than working for most Americans, we are going to be dead in the water. Sure, I get mad at the evil Goober ;), but really I'm mad at the people who placed him in the leadership position.

    Feel free to counter with your critiques of how Democrats are to blame, but I'm concentrating on the aspect of working together as a civilization, versus fighting among ourselves for a decade, in gridlock. If we don't get our act together, it's going to bite us in the butt.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. samcraig macrumors P6

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    #2
    I think we've always had problems. I think that they may be increasing and/or they are just different ones. I think that one side of the campaign is instilling great fear into the minds of some American's. I'm really not a fan of fear-mongering like that. It's important to define the problems and work to solving them. It's not productive to speak in hyperbole and make everything look like it's in DEFCON 1
     
  3. oneMadRssn macrumors 68040

    oneMadRssn

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    #3
    I have an optimistic outlook: I think we just recovered from the worst recession since the great depression. Unemployment is low, tons of new jobs are being created which are bringing back those who stopped looking, the stock market is higher than ever, wages are growing, poverty levels are down, violent crime rates are down, more states are about to legalize pot, travel and entertainment has never been less expensive and more accessible, the population paying more attention than before to health and fitness, and we are finally starting to have a decent conversation about race.

    There are certainly areas for improvement: Some changes need to be made to reduce the number of gun deaths and mass shootings, to address climate change, to refocus public education and to make post-public education more affordable.

    Otherwise, things are fine and dandy.
     
  4. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #4
    Right now people are losing their minds. That's America's biggest problem.
     
  5. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    #5
    I don't think that we're out of it, I think we're bound towards a huge Iceberg... and no, I don't blame Obama.
     
  6. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #6
    community organizer had control of the house & senate for 2 years, what got done? BOTH sides are worthless and BOTH sides play stupid games at the expense of the morons who keep electing them no matter how bad they are.
     
  7. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #7
    But they think it's a TV show, which is the bigger problem. Or maybe it's a good thing. On November 9th everyone goes back to watching football or trying to get a leg up on holiday preparations. The guy down the road from me is starting to put up his quarter-acre of kill-the-darkness as I write this post. Seems over the top to start before Halloween but at least he's taken down his Trump signs to make room for the neon reindeer.
     
  8. Populism, Oct 18, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016

    Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2014
    #8
    Here is the strategy Liberals/Democrats should adopt to prepare for the post-Clinton victory:

    Between now and the election, they should call anyone not voting for Clinton a sexist, misogynist, bigot and/or - the money shot - an idiot. And in fact, for the weeks following the election, Liberals/Democrats should continue to call anyone who didn't vote for Clinton a sexist, misogynist, bigot and/or idiot.

    Then, assuming FiveThirtyEight's popular vote estimate turns out to be correct - that 50.3% of voters won't vote for Clinton - and assuming 126 million people vote in this election like they did last time - then Liberals/Democrats need to be SHOCKED SHOCKED SHOCKED when 63 million voters, as well as the hundreds of millions who identify with the people who didn't vote for Clinton, are not gee-golly happy about being called sexist, misogynistic, bigoted idiots.

    Indeed, they should be Gomer Pyle surprised surprised surprised when they find that non-Clinton voters/legislators push back on her.

    That's an airtight strategy - to be dumbfounded by the pushback.

    And the good news, this Liberal/Democrat strategy is well underway.
     
  9. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    #9
    Yeah, the fear - especially by Democratic-themed organizations - has been off-putting this election. Both sides have, for differing reasons. For the Dems, it's almost been theatrical, if they are that scared, to allow various emails to say how terrified they are. But why should they be so scared to begin with? Why are they worried that former Democratic voters might swing another direction? 2010 and 2014, for which some say the GOP gains were somehow "punishment" for Obama because his plans were going nowhere (but the same people forgetting checks and balances and Obama needing a Democratic supermajority, which he did not have for virtually 100% of his tenure as president. I only remember obstruction, not bad ideas...) And the times when the liberal media also reported Obama and the GOP agreeing on some issues... the reason Sanders, Trump, et al, are popular by hyperpartisans or independents or those just curious seems to be because they are not locked into donors and lobbyists the same way. It's not inconceivable that all the people sending out emails from the DCCC, DSCC, and others aren't aware of these issues or how the voters see them, where they may not be seen the same or even correctly. All about perception or misunderstanding and with other statistics readily available for people to stumble over, maybe that is why Democrats are afraid. People believe the party in the President's chair is solely responsible for why food stamp use is up, college and health care costs are higher than ever, etc, with nothing being done because that means interfering in the free market that everyone thinks should be left to take more in corporate welfare than the unemployed-unable-to-get-a-job mother of one should be able to get in food stamps.
     
  10. unlinked macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Location:
    Ireland
    #10
    I look forward to a thread where everyone blames the other guys for not letting them do what they want.
     
  11. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    #11

    Too many assumptions to say with a straight face, or for others to believe with a straight face, that anyone can actually decisively win right now. After 2012 and 2014, millennials are a big concern right now. If people can't imagine why then they might be out of touch or wrongly accusatory. Along with other possibilities.
     
  12. oneMadRssn macrumors 68040

    oneMadRssn

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    #12
    Regarding whether we are out of it or not, it's a difficult thing to analyze. Sort of like, where does the atmosphere end and "space" begin? The change is gradual, there is no well-defined line. Based on pretty much every measure economists have come up with, we are more out of it than we are still in. There are certainly lingering penumbra of the recession, no denying it. However, the worst of it where people were losing their homes, layoffs left and right, tanking retirement and pension funds, and decreasing GDP, those are all over.

    Regarding being bound towards a huge iceberg. Perhaps, and perhaps not. Rather than debate whether or not there is an iceberg, I would rather always assume there is one and debate how to best prepare for it. That way, if we're wrong, we are still stronger. If we're right, we were ready for it.* The question is, what are we doing to prepare for it? Right now I don't think we're doing enough. I'd like to see more safety nets for the middle class.

    *Sidenote: I feel the same about climate change. No point in debating whether it is real or not, best to just assume it's real and prepare for it. The cost of saying it's real and preparing and then being wrong is very low, compared to the cost of saying it's not real and not preparing and being wrong.
     
  13. samcraig macrumors P6

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    #13
    I was actually talking about Trump - but I think you knew that. I am speaking to the campaign mostly - not other things. Trump's rhetoric has been about creating fear in the american public. The only "hope" america has is, in his opinion, him. Hillary has been identifying problems. She's created some fear and doubt. Mostly about Trump. But overall - her campaign is about what can and should be done. I don't think she's playing the fear card nearly as much as Trump when it comes to talking about our current and future state. I'm not talking about attacks both candidates are making against each other.
     
  14. yaxomoxay, Oct 18, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016

    yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    #14
    I agree (dude, we agreed twice in two days!) with you. We have to be very careful in the near future, the economy is as unstable as it can be, both at a national level and an international one. We have to prepare for the worse and keep our eyes opening as if a new Depression starts tomorrow.
     
  15. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #15
    I dunno. Conagra seems to be having trouble dumping as much Chef Boyardee on sale as it usually does when people see wallet-trouble coming down the road towards them. Lately they can't even "manager's special!"-sell that stuff off the shelf even when they do a 77c -with-loyalty-card sale.

    Ditch gold, prepare to buy tech in the crazed dips around Fed pronouncements.

    Or did the country learn something from Michelle Obama and we just eat less junk canned food nowadays? :) poor Conagra!
     
  16. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #16
    I'll have to disagree, partisanship, out right hostility, and corresponding gridlock in Congress is the greatest it's been in last 45 years. We did have the commie scare back in the 50s, but I'm to young to remember that.

    I don't see it that way. Taxes being cut and social program cuts,, military spending sucking us dry, social security system obligations ballooning, debt mounting. We as a group have to put our heads together, decide what is really important like overhauling our legal system, law enforcement, health system, etc, social security and figuring out away to give all the bottom rung Trumpets an opportunity to make a better life for themselves without relying on a psycho con man to pick our pickets.

    What do you see as the iceberg, close to what I said above?

    Both sides are worthless? Obama has accomplished quite a long list of things despite an obstructionist Congress. They are people just like the rest of us. You think your guy would be better? What about everyone else in Congress he'd have to work with? As a society, we must insist on integrity, but I'm arguing we collectively have our heads up our butts, hence we are in trouble, the point of this thread.:)
     
  17. Benjamin Frost Suspended

    Benjamin Frost

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    Location:
    London, England
    #17
    I feel for you.

    I wish Christmas decorations didn't go up until December 1st. I can't imagine it would make the slightest bit of difference to retailers. When I was a child, we sometimes didn't put up our tree until Christmas Eve. It makes one appreciate Christmas more if it's shorter.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 18, 2016 ---
    I couldn't disagree more.

    One of Trump's main policies is defeating terrorism and the causes of it. He is all about defeating terror and fear. Clinton is fomenting it by turning every scenario into a racial one and dividing Americans. She has already stated her hatred for a quarter of the American population. Trump was right when he said that Clinton's heart was filled with hatred.

    In the second Presidential debate, Trump stressed the importance of fighting Islamic terrorism, the top threat to America and the world. Clinton didn't even mention terrorism.
     
  18. samcraig macrumors P6

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    #18
    You've missed my point entirely.
     
  19. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #19
    The two candidates have somewhat simillar postions except I'd call Trump's more extreme. In other words she wants to close Guantanamo, he wants to keep it open. She wants to keep the USA Freedom Act's restrictions on NSA surveillance but Trump wants to let NSA go back to bulk surveillance etc. She wants to screen more closely on immigrants from areas that have experienced Islamic terror (not explaining what she'd do about France for instance), Trump wants to ban Muslim immigrants or has stated a desire to do so "until screening could be perfected" despite the fact that's likely impossible much less Constitutional. He favors harsher interrogation techniques, ones we do not now endorse.

    The top threat to America and the world is probably failure to make adequate adjustments in the economic and educational sectors for people affected by offshoring of labor-intensive or pollutant-intensive manufacturing jobs. Lack of work and lack of economic wherewithal to support family are things that promote tribalism and stir up a lot of trouble in a diverse society.

    That those conditions also may favor impulses towards assorted form of terrorism seems to escape too many people. Everyone has the drama of Islamic terror on their mind and meanwhile we have moms in Chicago diving into the bathtub with their babies for shelter from gunfire every time a gang takes exception to another gang selling a hundred bucks worth of dope on the wrong street and empties a few dozen clips to make the point. That is living in terror in case these jackasses in Congress don't get it.

    Trickle-down economics favored by Republicans don't work. Neither do the mass produced solutions of programs previously favored by Democrats. Now what we have is a weird overlay of half baked enterprise zones and work incentive programs where there's not enough day care or health care, not enough decent urban grocery stores, not enough jobs, not enough education, not even enough generosity with basic nutrition and not enough willingness on either side the aisle to sit down and say this is OUR problem how can WE address it.
     
  20. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #20
    Liberals scream to the right calling them bigots, liars, sexists, rapists, racists and when they win the office they wonder why they can't just all get along? LOL
     
  21. npmacuser5 macrumors 6502a

    npmacuser5

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2015
    #21
    Half full vs half empty glass! I prefer the half full with I am going to fill it.
     
  22. Benjamin Frost Suspended

    Benjamin Frost

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    Location:
    London, England
    #22
    I agree with a lot of what you say, in particular about violence in the inner cities. Both the Democrats and the Republics have let them down. Drugs are a very direct root to evil, and America should take a leaf out of the Philippines's books. They are having a clampdown on drug dealers there, which is involving a lot of killing. Part of me, as a Christian, says that killing is wrong. Another part says that this is the only way to defeat drugs, which have been such a detriment to the good non drug-taking Philipinnos.

    With regard to inner-city violence, a major part of the difficulty of solving it is the racial aspect. It is mostly black on black violence, which these days is taboo to mention, even though it is the truth. Until we accept that there is a moral code which all have to obey if the world is to be civilised, then violent chaos will exist.
     
  23. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #23
    Well when a party tries to suppress votes of minorites to the extent a Voting Rights Act had to be passed (and should still be holding certain feet to the fire if you ask me), then what is one to think. No one passed a Voting Rights Act because it was a slow news day sometime. There was and is a reason for it. We are still affected by institutional racism so ingrained a lot of us don't even notice it. Same with misogyny.

    We could all get along, if we didn't keep thinking we can't all get along and still "get ours" because life's a zero sum game. It isn't a zero sum game and in fact the more you love the more room for love there is in your heart. How do you think people living below the poverty line manage to tithe to a local church that hands out turkeys to the even more impoverished at Thankgsiving time. Why is it in so many cultures it's so often the poorest of the poor who have the openly generous hand, even to the stranger who stops by lost on way to somewhere else?

    Sometimes in the USA we seem too willing to stomp all that out and reduce everything to transactions where if you don't have a chip you may not play. And not just anybody gets to hand out the chips. This chip for a job, that one for a house. Oh maybe not that Hamptons chip.. how about this one, in Jackson Heights.

    So yeah, maybe we call some people bigots, liars, etc while campaigning, because maybe they are? And then when we win the office, why can't we get along? Because the losers are still who they are?
    --- Post Merged, Oct 18, 2016 ---
    That I certainly agree with, although I have some trouble with the racial aspects of your post. Maybe it's that I now live in a rural area where although some of the standard college-kid drugs are peddled (to a diverse group of students) by black or Hispanic dealers hooked into the NYC lines, the non-college and much more rural drugs trades are managed by white dealers to white users with violence as chilling if not as densely newsmaking as in the cities.

    Wrong is wrong and it lacks a color in the end. We all bleed red..

    As far as the Phillippines. I cannot condone Duterte's approach but I can understand the anguish of the people he sought votes from to ascend to power. It has been the same in the dreadful convulsion of Mexican society by the drugs trade. It's such a scourge. And the shame of it is that the USA is still a hotbed of illicit drugs demand.

    We have to combat the demand side or the supply side will always adapt to whatever obstacles are put before it. It's only when there's no market that it will die out. I'd settle for it being half what it is and call that a miracle. We are somehow gluttons for feeling better instantly.

    I've no clue how to dissuade young people from going down that road. It would probably be easier if we didn't load them up with so much anxiety about their future, not just by the evolution of global business and technological disruption, but by such horrendous example as my generation and the boomers have set for them.
     

Share This Page