Is the Universe's existence proof of a supernatural being?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by moonman239, May 7, 2016.

  1. moonman239 macrumors 68000

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    #1
    The Big Bang Theory says the Universe was formed, essentially, by the coming together of various particles. There is no single explanation as to how the particles themselves came to be - they were just there. Some scientists believe energy came before the said particles. However, this leaves us with yet another question: How did the energy itself come into existence?
    Before the Big Bang, was there no concept of a "beginning", or did a supernatural being create one?

    I believe, therefore, that there must be a God.
     
  2. steve knight Suspended

    steve knight

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    #2
    there could be a god but god would be far more then us pathetic humans could understand. to think we can understand god is a fools dream.
     
  3. boast macrumors 65816

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  4. steve knight Suspended

    steve knight

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    #4
    gods parents silly.
     
  5. AngerDanger macrumors 68030

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    #5
    You ask a question to which the answer is unknown and then conclude that there must be a god. That seems like an odd leap to make. Why must a god have created it? What about multiple gods? What about a god-and-a-half? What about any other series of events?

    Infinite hypotheticals are possible. What if you just say "I don't know" and stick to it until that changes?
     
  6. garirry macrumors 68000

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    #6
    In my purely unresearched opinion, the world has always existed and will always exist (if it never starts, then it naturally can't end, but that's a bit abstract to be fair), in other words, the world is infinite (even though it's not easy to imagine for a human being).

    My argument is the fact that no matter what do you think created the universe, whether it'd be a big bang, or a god, in order for them to exist there needs to be something prior to create said god, or something had to be there in order for the big bang to happen in the first place. It's particularly why I dislike most religions, they all say that god is our creator, even though it has never been mentioned who made god or why does he even exist. And when you ask them, they answer "nobody knows". Yeah, well somebody had the guts to come up with a story with plot-holes everywhere, then claiming it's the real story of the universe. So naturally, the only logical explanation is that no matter how far you go, there's always something prior.
     
  7. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

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    #7
    "Single explanation"? What's that suppose to mean? Something so mysterious to give us pause, because you said it?

    Maybe boson particles came from a black hole.
     
  8. HEK, May 7, 2016
    Last edited: May 7, 2016

    HEK macrumors 68030

    HEK

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    #8
    Wrongo, universe came into being not from coming together from various particles. It popped into existence, a singularity that expanded as pure energy. Time started at that same instant. There was nothing before, no energy, no particles, no time. As that energy cooled, it started to form various sub atomic particles that combined to form mostly dark energy and dark matter with a small amount of hydrogen.

    We still don't know what dark energy and dark matter are. What we see as the universe, the hydrogen atoms have come together to form the galaxies and stars that have produced all other elements. The universe continues to expand and is accelerating in it's expansion.

    To postulate a god that created the universe would mean the god existed before the universe. But since time did not exist, there is no before. To imagine a god, simply begs the question, what created god? The universe by definition, is the everything, the all, the creation of time, space, and energy.

    What is amazing is that through atomic transmutation inside balls of hydrogen gas called stars all the elements were formed that have evolved into sentient beings that can understand the mechanism of the universe and see where we came from. We are the universe becoming aware of itself. The majesty of that thought makes any simplistic god story pale in comparison.
     
  9. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

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    #9
    Maybe there's more to existence beyond the observable universe. You're thinking the same as he is.
     
  10. APlotdevice macrumors 68040

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    #10
    If the universe didn't exist, then no one would exist to question how the universe came into existence.
     
  11. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #11
    It says no such thing.
     
  12. obeygiant, May 7, 2016
    Last edited: May 7, 2016

    obeygiant macrumors 68040

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    #12
    If there is a god she does not care about you. You are not a unique and beautiful snowflake.
     
  13. HEK, May 7, 2016
    Last edited: May 7, 2016

    HEK macrumors 68030

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    #13
    Suggest you look up definition of universe. It is everything. All existence, time, space, energy, matter (being another form of energy). Nothing is observable outside the universe. There is no existence beyond the universe. If there are other universes, No information, observation, knowledge, energy, is transferable between them. Postulating there is more to existence beyond the observable universe, is an argument of absurdities.

    With the understanding of how things actually work gained in the last 100 years, I see no need to resort to stories of creation passed around by goat herders sitting at campfires from 2,000 and more years ago. Homo sapiens do have a need to explain things they observe. However clinging to unsubstantiated myths, from bygone eras, when theories proven by repeatable observations are available seems rather childish.
     
  14. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Suggest you grasp the concept that there may be possibly more to existence than the known universe. There could be multiverses and a host of yet unknown possibilities.

    I'm fine with you not feeling a need for stories of divine creation, just don't try using science yet as proof to people of faith that God doesn't exist. That's as arrogant as fundamental faithers can be.
     
  15. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    How can something come from nothing? Granted even the concept of a higher power runs into this same problem. It defies logic. I'm not sure mere mortals can understand. We are so used to something having a beginning, middle and end. So we try to say everything has to have had a beginning. It becomes a chicken and egg problem though.
     
  16. AngerDanger macrumors 68030

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    Very well said. It flies in the face of the nihilistic atheist portrait many theists paint, too. I remember reading a passage from "Wonders of the Universe" as part of an astronomy class, and when it described the process by which we were created from stardust, my heart raced. Reality is too good to make up.

    I will concede I think it's cool chapter two of Genesis mentions humans being made from dust (this was obviously lifted from an older myth; it's incongruent with chapter one). It's like on some level, we've always understood that the simplest, most insignificant things beget the most complex and beautiful. We just got a bit confused and threw in an incomprehensible omnipotent being.
     
  17. IHelpId10t5 macrumors 6502

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    #17
    They likely had a stellar night of hot sex that got out of hand. However, Plan B wasn't available at their local drugstore back them.
     
  18. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

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    #18
    I'm pretty agnostic myself, as well as existentialist. If I believe there is something out there, that's about it- nothing like what religions proclaim to know. Whether or not He/She/It exists, I can't pretend to know the slightest about He/She/It and his/her/its expectations. I guide myself on a seemingly inherent moral compass and do my best to make the world a better place for the sake of a better society. An afterlife/reincarnation, one can only hope but I don't believe in one. That's why I do my best to make my existence and the existence of others better in the here in now. Not for some eternal "reward", rather for a better life today and in my lifetime. If there is a God/afterlife, then he/she/it should be satisfied with my life's work, but then again who am I to say?

    That said, the origin of the universe is theoritcal. I'm a man of science and if that's what the physicists claim (theoretical physics is far beyond my skill set) I will go along with it. Who knows though, 100 years from now with advanced in science/tech there may be an entirely different theory. And yet the God vs Science debate will continue.

    It's really a silly argument to have in my mind. I generally respect everyone's beliefs on inconsequential matters, but a God vs. Science argument is fruitless. Some people just can't accept or even reconcile science... Or God?

    And at the end of the day whether God or the Big Bang created the universe, does it really make a difference?
    --- Post Merged, May 7, 2016 ---
    When I was about 3 YO I suggested God died first. I'm sure that was regarded as blasphemous coming from a little Jewish boy.
     
  19. throAU, May 7, 2016
    Last edited: May 7, 2016

    throAU macrumors 601

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    #19
    No.

    Next.

    edit:
    What makes you consider that a supernatural being is required for the universe to "be" rather than a universe being required for a supernatural being to exist in, anyway?

    Assuming there is a supernatural "being". Having a "creator" does not solve the problem of "how did it come into being" because all you're doing is replacing "where did the universe come from?" with "where did the universe's creator come from?".

    Except we have some (albeit incomplete) evidence for how the universe works, and zero hard evidence for a creator. "Oh science can't figure this out, therefore God did it! The bible said so!" is not evidence.

    Just think of the universe itself as "God" if that helps resolve that paradox in your head.
     
  20. MacNut macrumors Core

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    #20
    The universe had a beginning and it will have an end. It will be billions of years from now and we will ever see it but everything will come to an end. Our solar system will be eaten up by our exploding sun in about 3 billion years. The Milky way will collide with the Andromeda in about 4 billion years. Start looking for new property now.
     
  21. throAU macrumors 601

    throAU

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    #21
    You have no proof for that. The truth is, we don't know. We have theories.

    We do not know what happens to the universe in the long run. Maybe it ends in heat death. Maybe something else happens. Maybe there's a big crunch at some point and it starts over (i.e., there is no end, just cycles).

    But just because we don't know, does not mean "god did it".
     
  22. obeygiant macrumors 68040

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    #22

    The universe ends when you get married.
     
  23. MacNut macrumors Core

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    #23
    We learn more each day about the universe. The better our technology gets the deeper back in time we will go.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda–Milky_Way_collision
    --- Post Merged, May 7, 2016 ---
    I think you are thinking of sex life.
     
  24. throAU macrumors 601

    throAU

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    #24
    Sorry by "no proof of that" i meant with regards to the end of the universe. Not the galactic collisions, etc.
     
  25. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #25
    Happens all the time at the quantum level. Virtual particles pop in and out of existence.
     

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