Is this an emerging new genre, radical Islamist students?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by dogbone, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. dogbone macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #1
    Not 'radical' in the sense of new political ideas, but radical in the sense of using sub machine guns as part of their religious studies.

    Armed students and clerics at the Lal Masjid (Red Mosque) have openly defied the authorities for months in their campaign for Islamic Sharia law.
    link

    Sharia Law and guns are becoming inextricably linked.

    Apparently the bad boy Fundamentalist Radical Islamic terrorists really have nothing to do with Islam they are just wayward people who are misrepresenting their religion, or so goes the PR line. But this news story would appear to paint a different picture.

    These chaps are certainly not terrorists (yet), but it's going to be harder to separate the growing Islamic based violence from the religion now that bona fide students are openly at war with the police.


    If only the Kent State students had access to AK-47s.
     
  2. Max Payne macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    Red is Ahmer in arabic... What is lal? Never heard of it.

    There is no such thing as terrorism nowadays. Americans are killing innocent civilians in Iraq, afghanistan, etc... In return, Muslims are killing innocent civilians in Bush's land of terror & America's slave (UK).

    I'm absolutely against all killing. No doubt about it. I'm also against the US & UK f*cked up media. How on earth is US killings freedom and Muslim's killing terrorism? If America & its slave (UK) have the right to invade countries and kill their citizens then they must accept terrorism as reply back. In the end, you get what you pay for.
     
  3. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #4
    That's why we have...wait for it...Google

    From the link Lal Masjid is no ordinary place of worship. LoL.

    EDIT: I've just had a bit more of a read from the google link and it makes for some unsettling reading. Here's a sample

    In 2004 the government agencies, for example, blamed Allama Ghazi that he was involved in a terror plot that was to attack GHQ, Presidency, Army House, Parliament House and American Embassy on the eve of independence day of 2004. This created a hype and continued for two and half month and its drop seen was by an announcement that it was all a mis-understanding.
    This is a dangerous policy as it erodes the very foundations of any civilized society. It involves nabbing anyone without even charging him with an offense, it involves extrajudicial detentions, use of torture to extract confessions from a suspect. It involves one sided media trials which permit no opportunity for defense. If one looks around, he will find that all this has become the order of the day


    FFS their students are shooting the police with machine guns. It's pretty obvious after reading the manifesto of Lal Masjid that the students are not wayward radicals but are a part of a complete terror breeding university. I wonder how many other Masjids are like this. There is something seriously wrong with Islam if this is considered normal.
     
  4. Queso macrumors G4

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    #5
    This isn't new at all. The Taliban started off as a student movement.
     
  5. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

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    #6
    Actually I should thank 'Max Payne' for making me google the Masjid as it has turned up some interesting links like this blog it appears that the ordinary Islamic citizens *are* being terrorised by these institutions.

    It is another example of the sick teachings given by mullahs and force their evil mentality on others, government simply dont have balls to take any action against these mullas, right in the heart of country's capital the mullas are running hate propogating RADIO channels, calling for Jihad, oppenly kidnapping people, and harrasing shop owners and moderate people.
    In every televised interview mullas claim that they are preachers of Love(HUH) and no extremism taught in Madersas, now they are caught with their pants down, world can see not only male but female TALIBAN.
    Posted by: Syed at March 29, 2007 08:15 AM
     
  6. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

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    #7
    This doesn't appear to be a student movement but rather a mullah movement indoctrinating the students and intimidating moderate muslims with violence.

    It's ironic that moderate muslims can speak up about this outrage in Pakistan but when Hilaly tries the same tactics (albeit watered down to what Australia will put up with) the silence is very loud.

    Here's another interesting pov from the blog...

    "I must salute the moronic attitude of the author. How cleverly author twisted the actual news to demonstrate his haterd against the religion and it reflects when he used the term "militants" for the students."

    I would say that students with machine guns could fairly be described as 'militants'.
     
  7. mactastic macrumors 68040

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    #8
    This could just as easily describe Gitmo law as Sharia law...
     
  8. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

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    #9
    That's a classic, If I had equated Sharia Law to Gitmo law I'd get reported. That's really funny.

    But I still don't know what you are on about that paragraph is from the Masjid website giving their take on how the Pakistani government is harrassing them. What does it have to do with Sharia law anyway.
     
  9. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #10
    Huh? I don't understand the Kent State remark at all.

    There is a movement within Islam (a religion of more than 1 Billion people it should be noted) that is overtly militant and students in the madrassas have often been a large portion of the recruits for terrorism and combat operations for the last century. So no, this doesn't change anything, nor should this incident be used as an excuse to paint nearly 1 Billion people as terrorists.
    Furthermore, accepting the definition of Islam as consisting of terrorists is exactly what these lunatics want. They want the 'West' to engage Islam justifying their actions as a defense of Islam.
     
  10. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #11
    The Kent State reference was just pointing out how ludicrous it is that Students are encouraged to use sub machine guns by their teachers. Never mind about the politics. It is already dysfunctional that a Masjid has *any* 'students' capable of behaving in this way, whether they have a gripe with Musharaf or not, whether they are pro Sharia or not. The fact that students are encouraged to fight the Authorities with machine guns is really enough to justify the total shutting down of any Masjid associated with these activities and arrest and imprison those responsible for inciting it.

    Kent state was bad, but does that mean that the solution was that students should be tooled up?
     
  11. zimv20 macrumors 601

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    #12
    uhh, no, you wouldn't. and even if someone did for some reason, i reckon the mods would just ignore it. i.e. no rule would have been broken.
     
  12. hulugu macrumors 68000

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    #13
    I'm not sure if closing up the Masjid's is going to do any good, rather it will be, like Kent State, a focus for action and that means active combat and casualties.
     
  13. devilot Moderator emeritus

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    #14
    Eh, we respond to post reports. ;) That said, I don't think a rule would have been broken, differing opinions ≠ rules being broken.
     
  14. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

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    #15
    Let me get this clear, are you saying that it is OK to make a sweeping statement that a religious law practised by hundreds of millions of Muslims can be equated to the 'laws' that are practiced in a military prison? This to me appears to be a pretty clear violation of the forum rules. So you might need to explain further.
     
  15. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #16
    Oh, poor oppressed dogbone.

    Who isn't actually oppressed because the mods have spoken.

    (By the way, hello devilot ;))

    No, that's an opinion. Wrong-headed maybe, but an opinion. Also, I think you've misunderstood what point zim was trying to make.
     
  16. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #17
    How come so many posters who argue with me have minders who speak on their behalf? It's a very curious situation.
     
  17. devilot Moderator emeritus

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    #18
    Um, do you care to explain what you mean?

    Is it anyone's fault that others share the same belief?
     
  18. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #19
    Sure. It's fine when someone picks up and answers on someone elses behalf a particular point being addressed. But when one directs a question to a specific person to explain what they mean, all too often the person who made the original remark falls silent and someone else answers on their behalf which is pretty useless because only the person themselves can say what they in fact intended.

    It's not a matter of belief is it. If someone wonders what you meant by something and a third person believes they think they know what you meant... you get the picture. You see when I ask "let me get this clear" only the person I'm asking can clarify the point especially if it's ambiguous. So when someone answers on their behalf and the person I asked won't clarify then how do I know if they didn't answer because they thought the third party answered correctly or they just felt happy that they don't have to be held repsonsible, because if I need further clarification then I'm carrying on a conversation by proxy. Which is rather silly.
     
  19. devilot Moderator emeritus

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    #20
    Honestly? My assumption is that those who engage in the PRSI are mature enough to stand for themselves and their on belief systems. If they fail to "stand up" for themselves, I'm willing to believe that their opinions were already well demonstrated.

    But maybe I'm too "lenient?"
     
  20. zimv20 macrumors 601

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    #21
    that you think that tells me you're thinking about it all wrong. this may sound a bit tautological, but: interesting comparisons are interesting.

    you were criticizing a group for doing something, then someone mentioned you could criticize another group for doing pretty much the same thing. an interesting comparison.

    inexplicably, you erroneously deconstruct that in an inflammatory way. sort of a 1+2 = cheecake situation. and, before anyone has half a chance to try to figure what you're on about, you self-persecute and claim a forum-wide (including mods) conspiracy against you.

    fascinating stuff. illogical, but fascinating. i think you're an all right bloke, frankly, but i get lost in your giant leaps of ill-reason and non-sense analogies. sorry to say so, but i do, and i suspect i'm not alone.
     
  21. hulugu macrumors 68000

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    #22
    Is this merely a complex way of you saying "I wasn't talking to you?"
     
  22. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

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    #23
    @Zimv20

    ...could criticize another group for doing pretty much the same thing...

    But the 'same thing' argument is your equation not mine. It's not the same thing just because you say so unless no one disagrees.

    ...you erroneously deconstruct that in an inflammatory way...

    again that's your attempted 'take', not mine. In fact by saying it's 'inflammatory' is in itself inflammatory as you editorialise as if it's fact.

    you self-persecute and claim a forum-wide (including mods) conspiracy against you.


    More inflammatory editorialising isn't it.

    fascinating stuff. illogical, but fascinating.

    You can't help yourself can you. More editorialising.

    i think you're an all right bloke, frankly, but i get lost in your giant leaps of ill-reason and non-sense analogies. sorry to say so, but i do, and i suspect i'm not alone.

    I'm going to 'deconstruct' the above paragraph. I am already aware that you may think I'm an alright bloke as I do you, if we did not we wouldn't communicate at all. So there's no need to say that. I dare say the reason you get lost in my leaps of (more infammatory editorialising coming up) 'ill-reason' is that if I put a question to you in order to clarify you don't play it with a straight bat. Whether you are alone or not in this is of no interest to me, I'm sure I could find a handful of people who agree and disagree with me, so what? Unlike most people in the world other peoples opinions of me are irrelevant to me.


    @hulugu,

    I'm busting a gut here, You said I was on your ignore list some time ago :) and I say the same thing as I said before, just do it, don't say it, it makes you look foolish when you say it the second time because I'm supposed to be being ignored. What is hilarious is that I told you I didn't believe I was on your ignore list last time you said it, *and you have proved me right*, and you and I both know you *are* reading this.

    Without mentioning any names I too have added a few choice individuals to my list which I began yesterday.
     
  23. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #24
    ???

    Umm...I didn't say that. That was pseudobrit. You're on pseudobrit's ignore list. Not mine.

    I thought he made a humorous statement regarding your complaints. And I also chimed in to add my thoughts to both zimv's and devilot's statements.
     
  24. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #25
    Why do all of the threads you create here seem to be about the same thing?

    So you do visit here. I apologize in advance. From what I can tell, this is pretty much status quo for certain posters. I'd say you get used to it, but...

    Yeah.
     

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