Is Trump in fiscal la la land?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by SusanK, Mar 1, 2017.

  1. SusanK macrumors 68000

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    Cavuto, FOX Business News interviews David Stockman

    While President Trump is expected to tout his administration’s accomplishments one month into his term during a speech before a joint session of Congress Tuesday night, former Reagan Budget Director David Stockman said he doesn’t see much progress being made.

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...ill-create-debt-crisis-like-never-before.html



    “I’ve thrown in the towel because he’s not paying attention and he’s not learning anything and he’s making ridiculous statements,” Stockman told the FOX Business Network’s Neil Cavuto.
     
  2. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #2
    David Stockman??!

    I guess you don't do much research before posting your "experts":

    On March 26, 2007, federal prosecutors in Manhattan indicted Stockman in "a scheme... to defraud [Collins & Aikman]'s investors, banks and creditors by manipulating C&A's reported revenues and earnings."
    The United States Securities and Exchange Commission also brought civil charges against Stockman related to actions that he performed while CEO of Collins & Aikman.[14] Stockman suffered a personal financial loss, over $13 million, along with losses suffered by as many as 15,000 Collins & Aikman employees worldwide.

    Stockman said in a statement posted on his law firm's website that the company's end was the consequence of an industry decline, not due to fraud.[15] On January 9, 2009, the US Attorney's Office announced that it did not intend to prosecute Stockman for this case.[16]
    Yeah, that's a guy whose opinion you should really value.
     
  3. SusanK thread starter macrumors 68000

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    I am aware of Stockman's background. Thanks for your response.
     
  4. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    Then why, given how clueless he is on the very subject you're using him as an expert (i.e., economics), are you bothering to cite him at all?
     
  5. AlliFlowers, Mar 1, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2017

    AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

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    #5
    Trump forced how many bankruptcies? Hey you still consider him an expert.
     
  6. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    She isn't. FOX news is.
     
  7. SusanK thread starter macrumors 68000

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    I didn't use the term expert.
     
  8. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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  9. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    I saw that interview and cringed when Cavuto intro'd Stockman. I knew Stockman's history and SusanK has claimed to know the same, yet she chose to post the article anyway. I questioned her judgment and still do.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 1, 2017 ---
    You cited his opinion, so you must think he knows what he's talking about. In layman's terms, that what's known as an "expert".
    --- Post Merged, Mar 1, 2017 ---
    Um....what? Nothing in that comment makes sense to me. Care to try again?
     
  10. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

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    How. Not hope. Trump forced how many bankruptcies - yet you still trust him.
     
  11. Huntn macrumors G5

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    You guys ever remember a time when bankruptcy was a mark of shame? Now it's savvy business practices, skating away from your debts for personal profit. I'm sure our President is an expert in this regard, and it looks like he's trying to accomplish the same lofty goal for the Nation. And now that the evil Obama is out, Republicans can get on board and abandon their budgetary moral outrage. :oops:
     
  12. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    Funny, because liberals in Congress abandoned their moral outrage over the budget deficit almost as soon as they took control of Congress, and certainly before GWB even left office.
     
  13. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #13
    Well gosh, seeing as in times of disaster we're all Keynsians, what the **** was going to stem the hemmoraging of the economy other than massive spending stimulus?
     
  14. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    Whether you agree with it or not, it can easily be argued that Obama was fixing what Dubya started. And the entire time the GIP wailed about the budget. Now is their opportunity to put up or shut up. Let's see what happens. :) The GOP IS STILL PUSHING the let's grow out of our debt, while we cut revenue and regulations. :oops:
     
  15. tgara macrumors 6502a

    tgara

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    #15
    Alli, those were reorganizations (Ch. 11), not liquidations (Ch. 7), and were largely undertaken because of shifting real estate market conditions. Very common in the business world. Airlines, retail stores, communication companies, they all use it because it makes for an efficient way for companies to continue to function while restructuring and paying off creditors.
     
  16. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #16
    You seem to have a very short memory, or selective memory loss, let me see if I can refresh it for you............


    That was new Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi in 2007, one year before they ran up the single biggest budget deficit in the history of the world.
     
  17. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #17
    So how should you handle financial crisis.
     
  18. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

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    #18
    Richard Branson failed at least 14 different companies, some huge busts. Yet he's regarded as an incredibly successful entrepreneurs and expert (*), and Obama goes on vacation with him. He's also a hero of the left.

    For a brief list of what Branson failed at:
    http://www.businessinsider.com/rich...aunched-in-1994-which-included-virgin-vodka-3


    (*) = Rightfully so. Entrepreneurs know how to use the law, and they know that without bankruptcy protection there would be a collapse in investments.
     
  19. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    Uh, I said Obama, not Pelosi. ;) Btw, I agree that we can't let our debt continue to grow. Trump's proposals must be staggering for anyone committed against more debt. It's long over due for this country to get real about what we can afford, but the GOPs priorities are all screwed up. Historic increase in defense spending paid for by cutting everything else? The road to ruin imo.
     
  20. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

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    #20
    When Banks go bankrupt, you let them fail, you don't enslave your people( your grandchildren ) to pay interest on the debt you rack up to save bond holders in banks, into perpetuity.

    At some point people need to wake up to the reality that they didn't act in the best interest of all the people, or even a majority of the people, they acted to save the Capitalists from the impending deflation.

    Would things have been bad for everyone, yes, but we would have recovered with a better wealth distribution, a better banking system, and a hell of a lot less debt.

    You think they stopped anything, no, they just put trillions of dollars of bad debt, the banks held, on the books at the Fed, they kicked the can down the road. What do you think will happen when the Fed is forced to divest the $3.5 Trillion it put on it's books, with quantitive easing?

    Like most people, you likely never put any thought into it, because it's math, and math is hard.
     
  21. Zenithal Suspended

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    #21
    People say "That Trump feller is one smart cookie. A real businessman, too. Did 'ya know he's got over 500 successful businesses?!"

    Yes, I did. But the majority of them are very, very small time businesses, ones you can run outside of your home office if you chose to do so. In my state, it costs $20 to file paperowrk, $800 for a franchise fee (all states have this) and that's it really, apart from taxes, quarterly and yearly. With $20,000 you could start 24 businesses. Means piss all if they're not much to sneeze at.

    For a guy who's really "business savvy" as he calls himself and one that supposedly uses a lot of loopholes, he sure does love stamping the Trump name on anything and everything. I wouldn't be surprised if had Melania get a property of Donald Trump tattoo on her person. Point is, for someone who loves working loopholes, he does an awful bad job at hiding himself from his companies. Grey area legal, would cause suspicion, but also save you a lot of money year to year.
     
  22. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

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    Investors look at a nations debt to GDP ratio, if we keep racking up huge budget deficits and getting very small GDP growth, the ratings agencies will be forced to downgrade our debt, and we will have to raise interest rates on that debt to attract buyers.

    Meaning a larger percentage of our fiscal budget will go to maintaining the interest on our debt, a 2% raise in interest rates represents hundreds of Billions of dollars diverted from the final budget, to maintaining the interest on the debt.

    What will happen when you cut hundreds of billions from the annual fiscal budget, when we consider the Federal Government spending is the largest driver of GDP growth?

    We will enter a recession, while interest rates are climbing, so called stagflation, the Fed, in turn will be forced to use the only tool at it's disposal to fight inflation, divesting itself of the $3.5 trillion it put on it's books since 2008. Maybe people don't understand what that means, the Fed created that money, that it used to buy Treasuries and MBS out of thin air, and when they sell those securities, that money will cease to exist.

    Deflation.
     
  23. Strider64 macrumors regular

    Strider64

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    #23
    What people fail to realize is having some debt can be a GOOD thing. I admit I'm at times am guilty of forgetting this and even got into a heated debate when Reagan was running for president with a good friend over this. Believe it or not but Reagan was a big spender and increased taxes a lot. I even read somewhere where Reagan was the worst president when it came to raising taxes. The problem is having too much of a debt where other countries can hold the U.S. hostage (China a good example) over this. Congress and the President doesn't help matters by totally taking a blind eye to the problem and being like a little kid in a candy store. I don't know if Trump is on the right path or not when it comes to the economy, but it probably doesn't matter for we'll probably never find out for the Democrats will obstruct him the whole 4 years. An if by some chance the Democrats win back the Senate and/or House in 2018 that will make matters even worse. Just my opinion.
     
  24. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #24
    Reagan spent more, as a percentage of the debt( 187% ) than anyone, save Martin Van Buren, but General Jackson paid off the Debt, so Van Buren raised it by infinity, as a percentage of Zero.

    However Reagan got over 5% GDP growth, year over year. Trump fancies that he can be like Reagan, that he can cut taxes on the wealthy, giving them more money to invest, thus creating jobs for Americans, who will in turn have income to borrow money from the banks.

    It must be understood, and I can not stress this enough, why I keep saying it over and over again, that is how money is created, and the economy grows, when people take bank loans or the government issues debt.

    Debt is the integral part of how the economy grows, but Government is historically bad at making investments, when it spends the money it borrows, into growth sectors in what we may call new technologies. In short, you don't want the government picking the winners and losers, you want the government to keep fraud out of the marketplace.

    The real question is, can Trump do the same things Reagan did, and get +5% GDP growth?

    I'm not optimistic, we've entered an age of Global Corporations, that will do what is in the best interest of their shareholders bottom line, and increasingly that's not what is in the best interests of the American middle class. Developed nations just don't see +5% GDP growth, year over year.

    Our whole system is based on a certain percentage of growth, form the state and local level, on up to the Federal level. Without these, maybe overly optimistic, growth levels, we can't meet our unfunded liabilities.
     
  25. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #25
    So instead you destroy the finance industry in its entirety and therefore destroy the economy.

    Obviously the right answer is to break up the banks that are too big to fail, but you need to have a worldwide government to do that. And how exactly will that work?

    Even the EU is seen as out of touch and unrepresentative, and it is small potatoes compared to that.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 2, 2017 ---
    Ordinary Americans didn't do well under Reagan, that's a myth.

    The stagnation started in the 1970s.
     

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