Islamic Clerics, what are they trying to achieve?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by dogbone, Jun 22, 2007.

  1. dogbone macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #1
    The thread topic up for discussion is why do Islamic clerics do this? What is their reasoning.

    There is a constant complaint from Islamic communities in the West that they are wrongly perceived to support terrorism. Yet at every opportunity the top clerics deliberately make the most provocative of statements to a media that laps it up. The same people who complain about wrong perceptions deliberately fuel these same wrong perceptions.


    "The cleric said neither he nor Hezbollah condoned suicide terrorism missions."

    ...even though Hezbollah has been proudly claiming responsibility for suicide attacks against civillians, for years.

    The Australian
     
  2. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #2
    What are western leaders trying to achieve? The proclaim that they are opposed to terrorism to newspapers that lap it up, and then they turn around and support terrorist states like Israel.
     
  3. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    Well if a cleric is going to preach the word of the Qur'an, he has no choice other than to teach the words of Mohammed who calls for "striking terror" into the hearts of Jews, Christians and non-Muslims. They are bound by their faith to fight for the cause of Islam. Here are some various quotes from the Qur-an:

     
  4. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #4
    I'm a bit disappointed with the first two posts. It was a serious question.

    After the London bombings the British Muslim association complained that Muslims were being unfairly perceived, as supporters of terrorism. Which is probably correct in my opinion.

    In fact a constant theme from the Islamic community in Western countries is that they have to contend with unfair prejudices against them due to a few loonies.

    One would expect the Clerical community to do their best to assist in redressing these community perceptions. Yet quite the opposite happens. Not only do we have prominent Muslim clerics in the UK and Australia, making highly provocative statements that help no one, but they appear to deliberately use the most extreme language that they are able to get away with and thus further these extreme perceptions.

    Why does the Muslim community support leaders like Hilaly, and Mousselmani who cause the very perceptions of which they complain.
     
  5. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #5
    Okay. Well what kind of answer were you looking for? Your question is a bit vague.

    You said "The same people who complain about wrong perceptions deliberately fuel these same wrong perceptions." Do you actually think people like that are going to own up to the deeds they do publicly? Which parts of the Qur'an should good muslims ignore?
     
  6. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    @obeygiant

    Ok, the bit you quote is in fact incorrect, I mean that the same people who complain about these false perceptions support people like Hilaly and Mousselmani.

    What I'm wondering is, are the Clerics who make these statements that try to whip up a frenzy against muslims (due to the public perception that these are respected leaders in the Islamic community), doing this on purpose.

    Because I can't see how it can be anything other than deliberate media whoring, I wonder what the ultimate purpose is. Then the other question is why are they allowed to keep creating this incorrect public perception with apparent impunity. It doesn't square up with the complaints from the muslim community that they are wrongly perceived as holding extremist views. And seeing as Hamas themselves spent years claiming to be responsible for suicide attacks against civillians it certainly is provocative to deny that Hamas is a terrorist organisation.
     
  7. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #7
    Why does the Crusader community support leaders like Bush and Blair who cause the very perceptions of which they complain? You may well ask.

    Please form an orderly line with your loaded questions, and make sure the safety catch is ON.
     
  8. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    @Skunk,

    What in the flipping hell is the 'crusader community'? And, why do you come into threads just to disrupt them? It gives the impression that a pertinent question has been asked that you may feel uncomfortable answering.
     
  9. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #9
    The "Crusader community" is the counterpart of your "Muslim community".
    Bias is no respecter of religious or cultural affiliation. Why do you seek to hold one group more accountable than another for the same blindness?
     
  10. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #10
    Take a look at the history of Crusaders and those who attempted to conquer
    the riches of Persia dating back to Alexander The Great.

    Look at what the colonials have done to every single indigenous population.

    They have taken or tried to take everything they want excusing their
    exploits in the name of God or the king or the queen.

    The Crusaders slaughtered millions under the direction of the Church of Rome.

    They sent missionaries to every continent assuming superiority over any
    indigenous tribes, doing all they could to subdue them in order to take advantage of their land, their natural resources or anything of value.

    I am sure these harsh words posted above in defiance of infidels is directly
    in response to those exploits.

    I do not agree with them, but I do see where that foundation of defiance
    came from. It is man's own inhumanity to others that inspires that kind of hatred.

    And here we are once again attempting to subdue the population in order
    to take advantage of their oil.

    And once again, the Evangelical Christians and the Jews flaunt their
    delusional superiority over others in the name of God.

    We have invaded the very cradle of civilization, assuming we know what
    is best for a culture dating back 9000 years and beyond.

    Those in power use these delusions of self importance to fan the flames
    of war and as always before, the goal is to conquer and exploit everything
    of value as they see fit.

    They keep us divided, using religion as their most effective tool.
     
  11. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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  12. Queso macrumors G4

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    #12
    The short answer is that people in positions of power lie. All of them.
     
  13. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #13
    Thats right and most people in power wether religion or govt crave more and more. Mankind is a warped beast, just look at the false christian George Bush and how many thousands and thousands dead by his decisions.
    The Islamic clerks are promoting a sick military religion and the goal is for a theocracy, so they can kill everyone who doesnt think like their twisted religion promotes.
     
  14. matthew24 macrumors 6502

    matthew24

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    #14
    If you are muslim you are part of 'the house of peace', if you are not, you are part of 'the house of war'. They promise you peace, if you submit to their teachings, they promise you war if you resist. They have a perspective from the inside, others from the outside.
     
  15. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #15
    as sad as that is...i think its the correct answer to your questions, and more so answers how man kind handles power
     
  16. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #16

    Funny how my current Muslim colleagues and friends over the years aren't like that at all. Can you please help me understand this?
     
  17. matthew24 macrumors 6502

    matthew24

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    #17
    I am talking about doctrine, luckily many sincere muslims truly wish their religion to be a peaceful religion. For many it is their honest conviction, others restrain themselves because if it comes to numbers their position outside the Middle East is not always strong enough.
     
  18. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #18
    One thing to remember:

    The Muslim extremists in the Middle East are just like the Christian extremists in the US. And I assume that they are like the Hindu extremists in India/Kashmir and the Jewish Extremists in Israel, every religion has extremists and some religious leaders are extremists too unfortunately. (with the possible exception of Buddhism, they seem to be an exception, though I may just be being ignorant about that part of the world).

    It is important to remember that the majority of Muslims in the Middle East, the majority of Christians in the US, the majority of Hindus in India and the majority of Jews in Israel are not extremists.
     
  19. matthew24 macrumors 6502

    matthew24

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    #19
    There is a lot of ignorance, prejudices, in these sentences, although there are instances that do give you a case, then again there is a fundamental difference between Christian and Islam doctrine.
     
  20. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #20
    Who have I been prejudice against by saying that all religions are equal? It just depends on your world viewpoint, just like everything else in life.

    Seeing as they both believe in the same god and share much of the same religious text, to say they have totally different world views is crazy.

    The Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland fought for years on "religious" grounds and both groups are Christian.
     
  21. adroit macrumors 6502

    adroit

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    #21

    Prove it.
     
  22. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #22
    Don't you mean the money we gave Hamas? Don't worry. That's going to dry up fast and they're going to experience their particular brand of "independence".
     
  23. Stella macrumors 604

    Stella

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    #23
    Islam is meant to be a religion of peace and tolerance. However, anytime their religion is questioned, all I see is violence and death threats from Muslims***.

    Islam is childish, they cannot take criticism, they don't believe in freedom of speech.


    *** Muslims in the West are fine, its the Muslims in Eastern countries that need to get into the 21st century and grow up.

    **** Any extremists are as bad as each other. Get a ****ing life!
    Including Mac Fan boi's. Although they don't kill people! ( not yet, anyway).
     
  24. matthew24 macrumors 6502

    matthew24

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    #24
    First, read the verses obeygiant quoted from the Quran.

    Second.

    Luke 6:27-36

    Matthew 5-7
     
  25. matthew24 macrumors 6502

    matthew24

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    #25
    1) Christians don't believe in the same 'God' as Muslims. (Although many 'christians' (and muslims) think it is the same God.) Even when Islam clerics may proclaim it is the same God, these two religions have a total different source of inspiration. (Muhammed just used some verses from the Bible (some even factual wrong), trying to get some converts from the Jews)

    2) The conflict in Northern Ireland was/is mainly a political one. The Protestants are late immigrants in a dominated Catholic nation. The Protestants wanted to join Great Britain while the Catholics wanted to join the rest of Ireland.
     

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