Islamic State fighters using US arms:

jkcerda

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http://news.yahoo.com/islamic-state-fighters-using-us-arms-study-085735376.html

London (AFP) - Islamic State fighters appear to be using captured US military issue arms and weapons supplied to moderate rebels in Syria by Saudi Arabia, according to a report published on Monday.

The study by the London-based small-arms research organisation Conflict Armament Research documented weapons seized by Kurdish forces from militants in Iraq and Syria over a 10-day period in July.

The report said the jihadists disposed of "significant quantities" of US-made small arms including M16 assault rifles and included photos showing the markings "Property of US Govt".
it was so kind of Obama to arm the rebels, what could have gone wrong?
 

jkcerda

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Playing Devil's Advocate here, but are we sure that it was Obama that did this?

Cases in point: Reagan arming Afghanistan, Iran Contra, etc. Do we know the age of the arms involved?

BL.
makes no difference really, any President who armed the enemy should be charged with treason, that includes Bush, Ronnie is long gone.
 

bradl

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makes no difference really, any President who armed the enemy should be charged with treason, that includes Bush, Ronnie is long gone.
Actually, it does. Not to defend him, but you went straight for Obama, without knowing if Obama did this to begin with. How do we know that it was Obama that did it, when any arms could be stamped with "property of US Govt", nor knowing how and when said arms made it to that part of the world.

BL.
 

zioxide

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makes no difference really, any President who armed the enemy should be charged with treason, that includes Bush, Ronnie is long gone.
Well, if you want to be technical about it, in this case we didn't "arm the enemy". We armed the moderate Syrian rebels and the weapons were then captured by ISIS.


Regardless, this is just another incident in the long line of the US government bending over for the military industrial complex.

You ask why we continue to arm people like this? MONEY. The Dick Cheneys of the world are greedy ****s who love their money and don't care who they sell out to get richer.

Defense contractors want more money -> defense contractors "lobby" (read: bribe) the government -> we buy more guns and arm the "rebels" -> area destabilizes and creates more cluster **** -> then revert back to step 1.

It's a vicious circle of the military industrial complex. Eisenhower warned us, but Americans are too stupid to pick up a ****ing history book and realize that.

Doesn't matter who you elect as President, democrat, republican, whatever, as long as them and Congress are bought and paid for by the defense industry this will continue to happen.
 

rdowns

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Jul 11, 2003
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Not only did ISIS get weapons we supplied "moderate" Syrian rebels, the Iraqi Army, when confronted by ISIS, just turned and ran, leaving all the goodies we gave them behind for ISIS.

So if you're following from home, we're bombing our own weapons. The military industrial complex couldn't have orchestrated it any better themselves.
 

jkcerda

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Actually, it does. Not to defend him, but you went straight for Obama, without knowing if Obama did this to begin with. How do we know that it was Obama that did it, when any arms could be stamped with "property of US Govt", nor knowing how and when said arms made it to that part of the world.

BL.
Obama is the one currently in charge. still makes no difference WHO did it, they ALL should be tried for treason.
 

bradl

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Obama is the one currently in charge. still makes no difference WHO did it, they ALL should be tried for treason.
Got it. If arms went over to ISIS that were there from Iran Contra, Obama is to blame.

If arms went to ISIS that were there from Desert Storm, Obama is to blame.

If arms went over there that were left behind from Abu Ghraib during Iraqi Freedom, Obama is to blame.

All of which occurred before Obama was POTUS.

In fact, the only way you would be entirely correct is when Obama sent arms over for the rebels in Syria, which IS was fighting with them, and IS kept them to do what they are doing now.

But any other instance, we need to remember to go by your fuzzy logic above. We'll make note of that.

BL.
 

zioxide

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Obama is the one currently in charge. still makes no difference WHO did it, they ALL should be tried for treason.
Oh please, this is a feeble minded appeal to emotion. You're blaming the puppet for the doing of the puppeteers.

How about instead of calling for some show trial that will fix NOTHING, we start demanding for banning private money in elections? How about we make legalized bribery ("lobbying") a felony?

The US government is bought and paid for by big business, and defense contractors/the military industrial complex are the biggest offender. Until that problem is fixed, it doesn't matter who the figurehead is in the executive branch, you'll never fix the problem.
 

jkcerda

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Got it. If arms went over to ISIS that were there from Iran Contra, Obama is to blame.

If arms went to ISIS that were there from Desert Storm, Obama is to blame.

If arms went over there that were left behind from Abu Ghraib during Iraqi Freedom, Obama is to blame.

All of which occurred before Obama was POTUS.

In fact, the only way you would be entirely correct is when Obama sent arms over for the rebels in Syria, which IS was fighting with them, and IS kept them to do what they are doing now.

But any other instance, we need to remember to go by your fuzzy logic above. We'll make note of that.

BL.
what part of jail them ALL is hard to understand? must you excuse Obama at everything?
 

aerok

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Oct 29, 2011
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Reading the article, it seems the weapons were given by the USA in different occasions. Some were supplied to arm the Iraqui army (Could be under Bush or Obama) and some of the rockets are from the 80s that were made in Yugoslavia.

The M79 rockets used by ISIS were made in the USA but were given to the Saudis.

----------

what part of jail them ALL is hard to understand? must you excuse Obama at everything?
The OP only blamed Obama. Must you blame Obama for everything?
 

Southern Dad

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To make it worse, these are not obsolete weapons. This is an M16A4 with an 8 digit serial number. The ammunition in this picture was manufactured in March of 2007. In the picture is a Garmin eTrex H which came out in 2007 or 2008.



 

jkcerda

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Not only did ISIS get weapons we supplied "moderate" Syrian rebels, the Iraqi Army, when confronted by ISIS, just turned and ran, leaving all the goodies we gave them behind for ISIS.

So if you're following from home, we're bombing our own weapons. The military industrial complex couldn't have orchestrated it any better themselves.
We create the terrorist we fight. Awesome way to stay at war
 

zin

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To make it worse, these are not obsolete weapons. This is an M16A4 with an 8 digit serial number. The ammunition in this picture was manufactured in March of 2007. In the picture is a Garmin eTrex H which came out in 2007 or 2008.

Image

Image
That first picture looks forged. I don't know, the U.S. Government Property logo looks weird and doesn't look real.
 

Southern Dad

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That first picture looks forged. I don't know, the U.S. Government Property logo looks weird and doesn't look real.
The logo would be Colt not the US Govt. And that looks just like many M16's that I've held over the years. I have no doubt that it is an authentic M16A4. I can't attest to where it was taken.
 

lannister80

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That first picture looks forged. I don't know, the U.S. Government Property logo looks weird and doesn't look real.
Those pics are from the DAILY MAIL.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2725040/Property-U-S-government-ISIS-jihadists-upload-photographs-online-American-Military-kit-claim-seized-fleeing-soldiers-Iraq.html

May as well be from the Inquirer.

And you're right, the "stamp" does not line up with the rest of the image. The "horizon lines" (or whatever you call that term in art where parallel lines all point to a disappearing point) don't match.
 

Solomani

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To be fair Obama is just the latest President to make this mistake.
Which makes him the most culpable ….. because he had every opportunity to learn from the mistakes of his predecessors (e.g. Dubya). But Obama did not learn. Instead, he chose to repeat their same mistakes.

Hence, Obama deserves all the blame he gets. But hey, that won't stop POTUS from sending more American arms and hardware to that Saudi King, who will only channel even more arms and military support to his Fundamentalist Wahabbi pals at the Syrian Al Nusra Front (a rebel jihadist front only half-as-bad as ISIS :rolleyes: )
 

aaronvan

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The M-16A1 needs some babying to remain functional. ISIL will jam them after one or two magazines and revert to their AK's.

The US gifted hundreds of thousands of old M-16's to the Iraqi and Afghan armies, even knowing that they were perfectly comfortable with the AK and are both fundamentally incapable of performing maintenance on their weapons and equipment. However, it was a fast way for the U.S. to unload a lot of old weapons (I guess it never occurred to anyone that we could just melt them down instead of contributing to the global glut of small arms) and make a buck at the same time.
 

LethalWolfe

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They say the enemy of your enemy is your friend but what happens when that friend then becomes your enemy? For decades world powers (U.S., U.S.S.R., etc.,) have fought proxy wars and/or tried to instill/encourage 'friendly' governments in the Middle East but you can't defeat an ideology like you can the standing army of a nation. When the ideology is basically "We want to kill you" there's not much diplomacy that can go on. If we try and stamp out entities like ISIS they just morph into a new movement that uses our military intervention as a recruiting tool. If we try non-military measures then they spin our lack of military involvement as a sign of weakness/cowardice and use that as a recruiting tool.



And you're right, the "stamp" does not line up with the rest of the image. The "horizon lines" (or whatever you call that term in art where parallel lines all point to a disappearing point) don't match.
The stamped logo and characters might look weird because of the proximity and angle of the camera flash. Below is an image I found on Google of a similar model weapon.

 

Solomani

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IMHO, Islamic militancy will grind to a halt the moment Toyota stops global production of its Toyota Hilux pickup trucks. The Islamists seem to love those things. They depend on them, actually, and use them as personnel transports as well as mobile machine-gun platforms or mobile rocket launchers.



 

0007776

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Playing Devil's Advocate here, but are we sure that it was Obama that did this?

Cases in point: Reagan arming Afghanistan, Iran Contra, etc. Do we know the age of the arms involved?

BL.
Obama has armed rebels in Syria, and the Iraqi army which lost a lot of stuff, so even if this particular weapon was older he still should have learned from the mistakes of past presidents and not sent more arms to the region.

Well, if you want to be technical about it, in this case we didn't "arm the enemy". We armed the moderate Syrian rebels and the weapons were then captured by ISIS.
Did they ever provide a definition of what a moderate rebel was other than someone fighting Assad? And if they did did they ever say how they were guranteeing that only those ones got the weapons?
 

Solomani

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Obama has armed rebels in Syria, and the Iraqi army which lost a lot of stuff, so even if this particular weapon was older he still should have learned from the mistakes of past presidents and not sent more arms to the region.


Did they ever provide a definition of what a moderate rebel was other than someone fighting Assad? And if they did did they ever say how they were guranteeing that only those ones got the weapons?
Assad was never a threat to the USA, nor did Assad ever have any military capability to "defeat" even a single American battalion. The USA was simply coerced by Saudi Arabia (arch-rival of Assad) to help gang up on Assad (at a time when rebel-jihadists were tearing up his country). Obama was tricked once again by the serpent-tongued Saudis. The Saudis are very successful in coercing US Presidents to do the dirty work for them.