Isn't anyone else getting tired of it?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by quagmire, Jul 28, 2009.

  1. quagmire macrumors 603

    quagmire

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    Apr 19, 2004
    #1
    Arguing with the same people over and over and over. It is hardly a constructive debate with civilized human beings. I know we all have the right to disagree with what Obama is doing, but it just seems the members not to be named are just doing it to troll. What is the point of continuing to argue with these members? They have their opinion and we have ours. It is one thing to debate our opinions that is constructive. But, to hate/love Obama just because he is a Democrat and argue using that point is just pointless.
     
  2. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #2
    Yeah- I am getting sick of it. Along with the misuse of the word "socialism" to refer to anything these people disagree with. It's stupidity at it's worst. On top of that, calling people "socialists" when they are far from it is also ridiculous.
     
  3. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    #3
    Is that really the only thing on these forums that you're getting tired of?

    Seems like so many threads, no matter what their original topic is, degenerate into either (1) same-sex marriage, (2) state-funded healthcare, of (3) whether or not God exists. And yes, it's always the same members on their respective sides of the debate.

    If it gets old, try doing what I do - unsubscribe from the thread and move on. But really, what you're describing is the whole point of a forum or message board. Disagree all you like.
     
  4. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #4
    I like how since you have been unable to convince some people to take on your political ideology and they continue to desire to use the Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum to express their own political opinions they are somehow a troll. Just because someone thinks differently than you, and they are vocal about their line of thinking doesn't qualify them as a troll. Plus you may find it Ironic that some people on the other side of the political spectrum feel like there are people on your side who are nothing better than trolls, doesn't make it true, but that's the perception. Those people will remain nameless here as well. Just because you're frustrated with someone, doesn't mean they are trolling.

    Posting inflammatory comments designed to do nothing but generate a large negative response is trolling. Liking to a news source decrying a particular political tactic, or giving an opinion on current events is not trolling.

    I've been accused of trolling by the moderation team and had my comments deleted and been put in time out before, all I did was stick to my personal convictions and I was censored for it. I was not trolling, I was giving my opinion, but since I'm often in the minority here I was the one who was punished when the other side couldn't keep their cool. I thought that was unfortunate and is the largest reason why I stay away from here more and more often these days. Open debate is a joke around here, and it's high time people started saying so openly.


    First, I've never ever read anyone using the argument that they hate/love Obama simply because of his political party affiliation. I've read a lot of people who use that as a defense against having to answer valid criticism of Obama, it's easy to shrug it off and use the old gem "you just hate him cause he's a Dem" but that doesn't do anything to further the dialogue. If anything, that's closer to trolling since it purposely derails the conversation.

    Second, there probably isn't much point in continuing to argue with someone if you're growing tired of trying to convince them. To me that shows that you are apathetic about your own positions and no longer see them as fit for defense. If one side continues to come to the table for discussion, and you are tired of discussing with them, then in my eyes the problem lies with you, not them.

    This thread will go nowhere fast though, I can assure you of that much! It's borderline trolling it's self since I can see that it is likely designed to garner a reaction from those very people you are decrying. If I had any faith in our moderation team I'd expect them to close it, but instead it'll probably be me that gets censored for even mentioning it.

    SLC
     
  5. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

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    #5
    Lee, socialist policies are happening, no matter how much people say we don't understand what the word means.

    -Financial Bailout (which I know you were against)
    -GM Bailout

    These policies are socialist in principle. The government owning part/most of the companies and adding their own board members is controlling the means of production. Asking for individuals to be hired/fired and at what compensation is not free-market.
    ------------------------------
    That's besides the point. I agree with this thread, and I'm usually on the opposite side of most of the members here. I feel like people are opposed to some of my posts because of knee-jerk reactions, not actually looking at the economics of a situation and learning about it. I've changed my mind on issues because of this forum, I only ask that people try to understand where I'm coming from and why, especially when I back it up with easily-verifiable economic facts.
     
  6. quagmire thread starter macrumors 603

    quagmire

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    Apr 19, 2004
    #6
    I don't really mind threads always turning into those 3 discussions, it is how members are discussing them. Yes, we disagree with each other on the right way to fix all of these issues, but why get into a pissing match where one side throws out the socialism comment and the other right wing nut jobs? It is just completely idiotic how each side decides to get into a pissing match.

    The great thing about forums I guess because if we were talking about this in person, I bet we would be 6 months into a never ending fist fight. But, since this is the internet, we don't have the obligation to be civil like we do when people are in person talking to each other.

    As I keep on saying, the members have every right to have the opinion that they don't like Obama. But, they don't say it constructively. They throw the socialism word every chance they get. They link to clearly biased sites with a clear agenda. It's one thing to have a debate with two sides that have opposing view points. It's another to argue for the sake of arguing.
     
  7. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

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    #7
    I think it's the opposite. I doubt I'd ever get into a fistfight with people here. The internet allows people to be far more blunt than they would in real life (no fear of repercussion) and far less civil. I used to post like that and it didn't really accomplish anything. I doubt anyone is listening to me still, but at least I'm not getting into as heated of arguments over insignificant things and actually sticking to talking about the topic at hand.
     
  8. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #8
    I thought these bailouts were all in the form of loans. I haven't read anything factual about the government taking over the banks and car companies.

    However, I do agree with the idea that if we are going to loan these people tax money, we have a say in what they do with it and also a responsibility to make sure that they make changes within those organizations to make them better. After we get the money back (and it IS our money), they go back to their business. That's not socialism, that's smart investing.

    And no matter what you say- this country isn't turning into a socialist state. There's nothing to back that up.
     
  9. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

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    #9
    I guess that's a discussion for a different thread.
     
  10. eawmp1 macrumors 601

    eawmp1

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    #10
    Labelling something (e.g. conservative or liberal, capitalist or socialist or communist, or whatnot) oversimplifies something for the purpose of providing pap to the masses. It is easy to lump people together under the umbrella provided by a label for the purpose of demonizing them.

    Labels can be misused. Are you a social, fiscal, religious, etc. conservative or liberal. There are very admirable aspects to some policies that are labelled conservative. There are just as many admirable aspects to some policies labelled liberal. You polarize with binary labels. Look at the lack of compromise and statesmanship exhibited in Washington.

    Life is not black or white. When we try and paint it that way you have discord and conflict. I prefer a nice gradation from a little black, through a lot of increasingly lighter grey, to a little white.
     
  11. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #11
    Thank you. Well said.
     
  12. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

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    #12

    Very well-said.

    I'm a fiscal conservative who is pro gay-rights, pro-choice, and anti-religious. That's not very black and white.
     
  13. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #13
    Believe it or not, but I am just as quick to place a "liberal" troll on my ignore list as I am a "conservative" troll.
    If that were the case, Lee wouldn't have been put in time-out so many times, and és wouldn't have been banned. I think it's highly unlikely that the moderation team is anywhere near as biased as you are making them out to be.
    Then by that same token, were many of Bush's policies fascist? Fascist policies are happening?
    I've noticed :)
     
  14. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #14

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  15. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #15
    Me too. That's why I took Badandy off my ignore list. I like Badandy. :)
     
  16. quagmire thread starter macrumors 603

    quagmire

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    Apr 19, 2004
    #16
    To set things even more straight, I am not labeling all of the conservatives here as trolls because I disagree with them. There are actually conservatives here that can voice their disagreements with Obama civilly and have a constructive debate.
     
  17. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

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    #17
    Yeah, probably. I'm a big poponent of the free-market, which apparently gets me labelled as a fascist/big-business loving pig. In actuality I oppose tampering with the market in both forms: making it easier on businesses artificially or making it harder for them artificially. Misplaced subsidies, especially propping up the corn-ethanol "industry" is just as counter to my position as the other things I rail about here.

    Thanks guys, those were the days...

    Trend.
     
  18. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #18
    See???? This country is 0.21% socialist!!!1111111ones
     
  19. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #19
    Not much of a trend. ;)
     
  20. bruinsrme macrumors 601

    bruinsrme

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    Oct 26, 2008
    #20
    The "loans" to these banks are being paid for by jacking up credit card interest rates because they can. Case in point I had a cc at 11.2% with a $5000 balance. Never late always paid more than the min due. 2 months ago my account had been re-evaluated and the interested rate was adjusted to 25.99%. say what? Luckily I opted out and kept the 11.2% until I paid it off. I wish I understood how over night the US car and banking industries collasped.
     
  21. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #21
    Poor management. The main reason any business fails.
     
  22. bruinsrme macrumors 601

    bruinsrme

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    #22
    But how in the world can all the major banks, iga, and Detroit all crash with out any flags going up? Baffling to me. It seems the govt can't seem to pass a bill to save our lives but they didn't seem to have ANY problems handing out BILLIONS over a 2 week period. Strikes me as very odd almost like a cover your ass situation
     
  23. Bobdude161 macrumors 65816

    Bobdude161

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    #23
    I have been tired of it. I get tired of people arguing over religion a lot of times. Some people here seem to believe in "argumentative evangelism". It's like they believe that if they scream loud enough and if they keep coming back with another answer, maybe they will win someone to Christ or atheism. This kind of constant debating does the opposite. It only creates more friction between the two. Sometimes I do participate in discussion about Christianity only when I believe it's true stance is not being portrayed. I've only done it a few times. But most times I just look around once a day and if my words aren't needed, I don't say them. But just to let you all know, I do love you all (seriously) and pray for you from time to time, some more than others. ;)
     
  24. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #24
    Well, he's by definition more fun than Goodandy.

    I suppose it's fair. I suspect I'm a pinko commie traitor for suggesting that, while free markets are amazing things (being a direct application of the theory of evolution by natural selection to economies instead of organisms) they are not a magic wand that can be waved thoughtlessly to automatically solve all human ills. Natural selection is mindlessly cruel in exactly the way we want humans not to be.

    If I have one complaint with most conservatives, it's that they've forgotten (or never understood in the first place) that money is an imperfect abstraction of what humans value. Contrarily, if I have one complaint with most liberals, it's that they often mistakenly think the two are in opposition.

    Not to preach. It's been much on my mind lately.

    Anyhow, there are a number of conservative posters who manage to surprise me regularly by stepping out of rote doctrine and holding complicated views. You, sir, are one such these days.
     
  25. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #25
    Oh, the flags had been up for a very long time- but they were ignored. And "cover your ass" is exactly what was going on.
     

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