Isn't Archive Install or Clean Install Kind of Overkill Now-a-days?

TheSpaz

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jun 20, 2005
7,033
1
So many people on these forums are bent on erasing their drives before they install Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard. I want to know why. Don't you think Apple has made Mac OS X Leopard smart enough to upgrade and be just as fast as a clean install? I mean... if you're keeping your computer organized and don't download meaningless 3rd party apps and watching what you're doing, then an upgrade should be just fine right?

Here's what I may do.

Backup my entire Tiger drive onto another drive, then upgrade install directly on top of my current Tiger drive... this way, if I do run into problems for some reason (don't think I will), I could always just go back and start over.

The computers at work are upgraded and upgraded over years and years with new software and I've never ever erased the drive and started over fresh. It still runs great.
 

psychofreak

Retired
May 16, 2006
9,064
4
London
I have put off reinstalling Tiger so I only have to do one OS install this month, a lot of computers can get quite clogged up over time. Some apps (e.g. Mozy) even say that you will need to reinstall once you install Leopard...
 
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Nermal

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 7, 2002
18,763
1,225
New Zealand
I believe that Apple asks testers to install from scratch, so that there's no "overlap" from potentially incompatible software. Therefore the upgrade experience may suffer.

The only upgrade I've done was Panther to Tiger, and I remember having all sorts of strange problems. I'm playing it safe and doing a clean install this time, I started preparing stuff weeks ago :)
 
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Eidorian

macrumors Penryn
Mar 23, 2005
29,085
288
Indianapolis
There might be a need to worry about applications that use deep system hooks and how compatible they are with Leopard.
 
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TimJim

macrumors 6502a
May 15, 2007
887
2
Im doing a clean install just becuase im also installing a new hard drive. If i wasent putting in a new Hard drive, i would probobly do archive and install or a clean one though. Im sure upgrading is fine though if its an option from Apple.
 
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~J~

macrumors 6502
Jul 27, 2007
447
0
3rd Rock from the sun
Im doing a clean install... but Im also using this "upgrade" in OSX to install a 250GB HD in my MBP... so i kinda have to do a full install.

As a systems administrator (windows), i notice little difference between a full install & an upgrade (they both suck equally) :eek:;). BUT.... OSX is far different than windows (thank God!), so i dunno what the *actual* benefit might be - altho i would prob do a full install of the OS anyway, but maybe on an external drive just to make sure some of my software will work as needed. just my $.02
 
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Loge

macrumors 68030
Jun 24, 2004
2,683
1,151
England
Yes, I don't understand why people are so keen to reinstall from scratch.

I had no problems whatsoever with the upgrade option going from Jaguar to Panther, and from Panther to Tiger. I expect the same to Leopard.
 
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desenso

macrumors 6502a
May 25, 2005
798
1
There are things to be said for a fresh, clean start. Your argument is that Apple is probably smart enough to make it completely seamless, but in reality, you know as little as the people who are choosing to do a fresh install because it will probably be a beneficial decision.

I'm installing from scratch purely to have a fresh OS X installation, which forces me to re-think every Application I have installed.
 
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yetanotherdave

macrumors 68000
Apr 27, 2007
1,767
3
Bristol, England
This is the strengh of keeping all user data seperate from system files. Everything the user needs is in ~/ and /Applications, and maybe /Library if they are running a multi user system, it does mean that you can upgrade the OS in the same way you would upgrade a single application, just overwrite it*

I expect I will archive and install though. You never know what issues may arise. But I wont be clean installing. I don't see the point and the headache of making sure you migrate all your data back. If you do migrate all your data back, you may as well have not clean installed in the first place.

*grossly oversimplified, I know.
 
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vansouza

macrumors 68000
Mar 28, 2006
1,736
3
West Plains, MO USA Earth
Freedom of choice

Everyone is free to choose the method of install that they feel is best for them and their needs. I am going to do the Archive and Install, and if that gets FUBARed then I will do the clean install. I just think why go through all that agony of finding serial numbers for software if I don't have to. So archive and install or Update for me, first. And other options if they become necessary.
 
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desenso

macrumors 6502a
May 25, 2005
798
1
Everyone is free to choose the method of install that they feel is best for them and their needs. I am going to do the Archive and Install, and if that gets FUBARed then I will do the clean install. I just think why go through all that agony of finding serial numbers for software if I don't have to. So archive and install or Update for me, first. And other options if they become necessary.
Yojimbo + Quicksilver + the Yojimbo Quicksilver plugin = finding serials takes 2 seconds... But it's a valid point for anyone who doesn't take advantage of this combination of tools.
 
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MisterMe

macrumors G4
Jul 17, 2002
10,650
29
USA
So many people on these forums are bent on erasing their drives before they install Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard. ...
Anything other than a simple upgrade is a colossal waste of time. For those people who have the time to waste, have at it. For those of us who don't, we'll do a simple upgrade and be back to work while the Clean Installers and Archive & Installers are still futzing with their setups.
 
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Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
the biggest advantage of a fresh install is it removes all the crap that builds up over time. A lot of this stuff little programs we have installed and now never use or programs that we put on bug forgot about that now eat up system resources and over time the computer just get very jumble full of crap.

After almost all fresh installs of an OS the computer will run faster and just work better (windows and OSX) just because the build up of crap is gone.
 
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yetanotherdave

macrumors 68000
Apr 27, 2007
1,767
3
Bristol, England
the biggest advantage of a fresh install is it removes all the crap that builds up over time. A lot of this stuff little programs we have installed and now never use or programs that we put on bug forgot about that now eat up system resources and over time the computer just get very jumble full of crap.

After almost all fresh installs of an OS the computer will run faster and just work better (windows and OSX) just because the build up of crap is gone.
Residual preference and left over files don't affect performance if they are not being loaded. Just check your startup items and activity monitor for programs that shouldn't be running.
 
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thejadedmonkey

macrumors G3
May 28, 2005
8,074
824
Pennsylvania
Someone on this forum whom I trust to know what he's talking about suggested that due to the numerous underlying changes from 10.4 to 10.5, that I do a fresh install instead of an upgrade.

Seeing as I'm planning on installing Ubuntu, XP, and OS X in one night, I'll just back everything up, wipe, and start from scratch.
 
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Eidorian

macrumors Penryn
Mar 23, 2005
29,085
288
Indianapolis
Someone on this forum whom I trust to know what he's talking about suggested that due to the numerous underlying changes from 10.4 to 10.5, that I do a fresh install instead of an upgrade.

Seeing as I'm planning on installing Ubuntu, XP, and OS X in one night, I'll just back everything up, wipe, and start from scratch.
a.k.a. Peace

I'm going to do the upgrade anyways since I'll be testing for worst case.

I'll just fresh image my department once testing is over.
 
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zub3qin

macrumors 65816
Apr 10, 2007
1,311
0
Anything other than a simple upgrade is a colossal waste of time. For those people who have the time to waste, have at it. For those of us who don't, we'll do a simple upgrade and be back to work while the Clean Installers and Archive & Installers are still futzing with their setups.
This better be true, because it is one of the key reasons I switched to Mac 5 months ago.

I did so because I wanted Leopard, it became delayed, but I was told upgrading OS with Macs is so easy... just upgrade.
Now suddenly, all you hear are people backing up, doing clean installs, doing archives, all this nonsense. Whatever happened to the simple upgrading of the OS that Apple people constantly told me about.

I am "just" upgrading. And everything better be perfect. :)
 
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warswics

macrumors newbie
Apr 6, 2007
5
0
This better be true, because it is one of the key reasons I switched to Mac 5 months ago.

I did so because I wanted Leopard, it became delayed, but I was told upgrading OS with Macs is so easy... just upgrade.
Now suddenly, all you hear are people backing up, doing clean installs, doing archives, all this nonsense. Whatever happened to the simple upgrading of the OS that Apple people constantly told me about.

I am "just" upgrading. And everything better be perfect. :)
I agree. I switched from PC's to Mac because of the ease of upgrades and the fact that "it just works." So far I've not been disappointed. I'll be doing the upgrade or the archive and upgrade. Depends on how I feel that evening.
 
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coocooforcocoap

macrumors 6502
Sep 22, 2007
252
1
kathmandu, nepal
Yojimbo + Quicksilver + the Yojimbo Quicksilver plugin = finding serials takes 2 seconds... But it's a valid point for anyone who doesn't take advantage of this combination of tools.
desenso, what does this equation mean? is there a tool/database for all serials on a macbook pro running 10.24.10? thanks!!!
 
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MisterMe

macrumors G4
Jul 17, 2002
10,650
29
USA
...
Now suddenly, all you hear are people backing up, doing clean installs, doing archives, all this nonsense. Whatever happened to the simple upgrading of the OS that Apple people constantly told me about.

...
What you have is a bunch of recent switchers who believe that "real computers" run Windows. They cannot accept the concept that a computer OS can "just work." Well, computer OSes can "just work" and Apple develops them. System 7 was a major change from System 6. I performed a simple upgrade. MacOS X 10 was a major change from MacOS 9. I performed a simple upgrade. MacOS X 10.5 is a major change from MacOS X 10.4. I will perform a simple upgrade.
 
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IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,892
1,477
Palookaville
Now suddenly, all you hear are people backing up, doing clean installs, doing archives, all this nonsense. Whatever happened to the simple upgrading of the OS that Apple people constantly told me about.
It isn't all of a sudden, really. We hear this all the time, with each major update to OSX -- but only in forums like this. Where Mac owners aren't trying to be more geeky than the next geek, which is just about everywhere else, they simply click "upgrade," and it works as Apple intended it to work. If you no longer want an application you installed, throw it out. That's also the way Apple intended it to work.

I'll go a bit further and say that these clean install geeks are doing Apple and the Mac no favors. They are making it sound like a quite complex and potentially painful operation is somehow necessary, or at least advisable, when Apple has gone through no small amount of trouble to make certain that it is neither.
 
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masteroflondon

macrumors regular
Sep 17, 2007
228
161
London, UK
I'm just doing the upgrade on all my macs.

Some people talk about the system getting 'clogged up' and so on, but what does that mean? Files on the drive do not affect performance. Can anyone site an actual example of how OSX can be 'clogged' by age and use?

I think most of the fresh install ideas are held over from people switching from Windows which does have issues, the registration database and the fact that apps are free to write to the system folder, even updating some Windows components. The database runs into performance issues as it grows, and outdated or wrong information can cause severe problems. Programs can also place hooks into the operating system.

OSX does not have the database and I believe it does not allow apps to write to the system folder, so overwriting the entire system during an upgrade is straight-forward.

So, OSX is more like DOS than Windows after all :eek:

It isn't all of a sudden, really. We hear this all the time, with each major update to OSX -- but only in forums like this. Where Mac owners aren't trying to be more geeky than the next geek, which is just about everywhere else, they simply click "upgrade," and it works as Apple intended it to work. If you no longer want an application you installed, throw it out. That's also the way Apple intended it to work.

I'll go a bit further and say that these clean install geeks are doing Apple and the Mac no favors. They are making it sound like a quite complex and potentially painful operation is somehow necessary, or at least advisable, when Apple has gone through no small amount of trouble to make certain that it is neither.
I wish I'd said that. :)
 
Comment

desenso

macrumors 6502a
May 25, 2005
798
1
It isn't all of a sudden, really. We hear this all the time, with each major update to OSX -- but only in forums like this. Where Mac owners aren't trying to be more geeky than the next geek, which is just about everywhere else, they simply click "upgrade," and it works as Apple intended it to work. If you no longer want an application you installed, throw it out. That's also the way Apple intended it to work.

I'll go a bit further and say that these clean install geeks are doing Apple and the Mac no favors. They are making it sound like a quite complex and potentially painful operation is somehow necessary, or at least advisable, when Apple has gone through no small amount of trouble to make certain that it is neither.
Whatever. Windows upgrades "work", too. Many of us are just taking this opportunity to get a fresh start.
 
Comment

TheSpaz

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jun 20, 2005
7,033
1
the biggest advantage of a fresh install is it removes all the crap that builds up over time. A lot of this stuff little programs we have installed and now never use or programs that we put on bug forgot about that now eat up system resources and over time the computer just get very jumble full of crap.

After almost all fresh installs of an OS the computer will run faster and just work better (windows and OSX) just because the build up of crap is gone.
I don't keep old stuff I don't use. If I don't use it, I find where it lives and I trash it and make sure none of it's resources are running. This method keeps my computer clean and free of crap building up. If you do this, you won't have to archive and install every time a new OS is out. Plus, even if you archive and install, your User folder remains the same and that's probably more filled with crap than the root Library or System folders.

Anything other than a simple upgrade is a colossal waste of time. For those people who have the time to waste, have at it. For those of us who don't, we'll do a simple upgrade and be back to work while the Clean Installers and Archive & Installers are still futzing with their setups.
Exactly. We'll be enjoying Leopard while others are still trying to get their data back on and working correctly.
 
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