Israel shoots at predominantly innocents in aid flotilla

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Eraserhead, May 31, 2010.

  1. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #1
  2. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    Israel reckon it's a clever ruse. Does seem a bit dodgy.. why would they do something that would openly harm their own position I wonder..
     
  3. bobob macrumors 68030

    bobob

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    #3
    This is a non-story: the holocaust absolves Israel of all wrong-doing in perpetuity. Anyone who argues otherwise is anti-semitic.

    (Please delete this thread.)
     
  4. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    the fact that this happend in international waters makes it only worse .. legally that makes it _piracy_
    and after all why didn't they simply wait until the ships cross into israelian seas and then make a border control during they day with blocking the ships all in clear daylight...instead they let jump down special forces during the night from helicopters and wonder about a harsh response

    what makes his even worse is the international attention it got before and also the international observers on the ships:henning mankell, 2 german members of bundestag, a nobel peace price winner and a 85 year old holocaust survivor

    did somehow the IDF expect that no cameras will be on board ?:rolleyes:

    Greece already broke off their joint air force exercise, France declared itself shocked, turkey demands an UNO-conference


    it's a PR nightmare ...
     
  5. Eraserhead thread starter macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    To go on top of the others this year.
     
  6. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    The Israeli government is making the claim that they were fired on by the people on the flotilla, causing them to retaliate... oddly, the evidence they provide for this is that they confiscated Israeli pistols from protesters, who apparently had obtained them by disarming Israeli commandos... :confused:

    Hopefully the presence of high-profile individuals like some EU politicians on the flotilla will prevent Israel from just washing this over. If they were fired upon, in international waters, by a group of ships carrying humanitarian aid (unlikely), fine, but otherwise, their act should be treated as criminal and there should be an appropriate response from the international community.

    Alternately, this claim is also made...

    ...which, I guess, begs the question, if one is on a ship in international waters and is forcibly boarded by an invader, what are one's legal obligations? It hardly seems like one is legally obligated to a non-violent response. It does indeed make the Israeli behavior sound like an act of piracy, except committed by a military force.
     
  7. Heilage macrumors 68030

    Heilage

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    It would be much easier to defend and understand Israels fear of being annihilated (considering a few of the surround states have this as a policy) if they weren't complete *******s who completely overreact pretty much every time anyone does anything that could in any way be interpreted as a possible bad attitude towards them.

    Gawd, I'm not a big fan of Palestinians who throw rocks at Isreali soldiers either, but right now I am unable to take any side in this debate.
     
  8. Mac N Tosh macrumors regular

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    Without a doubt this is going to cause an international nightmare for Israel. But it makes one wonder if Israel sail an aid convoy to Turkey, to help the Armenians and Kurds ?
     
  9. Eraserhead thread starter macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #9
    I'm sure the Turkish navy wouldn't shoot at them in international waters in the middle of the night if they were largely or entirely unarmed and included members of major European parliaments onboard.
     
  10. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #10
    I suppose this also ads an extra tinge of worry to the report that Israel has permanently deployed a submarine with nuclear missiles onboard into the Gulf....
     
  11. Mac N Tosh macrumors regular

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    They came to get exactly what they came away with...and it is working...For now
     
  12. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    Depends where the investigation goes on this issue, if there were people on board who fired first then I see no problem with Israel lighting up the boat. If it was unprovoked, Israel is in deep.
     
  13. ct2k7 macrumors 603

    ct2k7

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    #13
    The video that that IDF has posted has a few flaws in it. It shows people defending not attacking ;/
     
  14. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #14
    I haven't watched the video, but why would they bring weapons onto a humanitarian aide boat?
     
  15. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #15
    according to some comments from journalists aboard the ships it were the isrealians shooting first directly when boarding but that is unconfirmed.. after all we will have to wait on what for example the german 2 politicans gonna tell their story

    according to some other comments the 2 hand guns confiscated were IDF weapons which were grabbed in the fighting which ensued on the deck

    and then it still was in international waters (70 miles away as far as i read .. which is quite a bit off from the 12 +12 miles) ... in which case israel still didn't have any right to raid the ship...



    and honestly a IDF search party searching a boat in a israelian harbour isn't quite what i call a investigastion

    all speculation aside it still was massive tactical failure to raid a ship with more than 100 upset people/protesters which are waiting for an attack with the same tactics as for example a freighter with a small crew...
     
  16. ct2k7 macrumors 603

    ct2k7

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    #16
    Exactly. According to Twitter: @aloncarmel, they aren't activists, apparently now MPs are terrorists. Please talk some sense into this guy.
     
  17. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    You guys actually believing that the Israeli commandos just stormed an aid ship and started gunning down random people?

    I have little love for Israels tactics.. but I just don't buy it, and the longer the day goes, the harsher the spin (Israeli forces shooting international humanitarians indiscriminately)..
     
  18. awmazz macrumors 65816

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    #18
    19 dead now.

    Two pistols can't justify 19 dead, regardless.
     
  19. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #19
    If your boat is attacked in international waters you have every right to defend yourself. There is every problem with Israel "lighting up" the boat.

    Firstly, it is entirely permissible to have weapons on any boat for self-defence, and secondly, the reports are that the only firearms involved were those taken from the Israeli attackers. Don't be so ready to excuse piracy.
     
  20. firestarter macrumors 603

    firestarter

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    #20
    Yes.

    Doesn't matter who was on the ships - Israel had no business conducting an armed boarding in international waters.
     
  21. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #21
    I already made my statement pending further investigation, it seems you have already made up your mind with your first statement, we do not know 100% that Israel was not the ones receiving fire starting the battle. I don't see what Israel has to gain by attacking a humanitarian boat (which was widely publicized), but I see much to gain on the side of the humanitarians by firing onto Israelis and creating an international incident.
     
  22. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    What other interpretation can you put on it? They dropped in from helicopters in the middle of the night, in international waters. The Israelis had absolutely no right to go anywhere near the convoy in international waters.
     
  23. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #23
    Don't you think the Israelis would have said something by now if they had been fired on by the convoy? What the hell were they attacking a boat in international waters for anyway?
     
  24. Burnsey macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    They'll find a way to justify this and spin it to make themselves and their heavily armed soldiers seem like the victims with the right to "defend". Throw in a little "terrorists" and "rockets" and "Iran" and "our existence" and done.
     
  25. ct2k7 macrumors 603

    ct2k7

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    #25
    Each convoy/boat have around 1 MP, the risk would be too great. Everything was vetted as it left Europe/USA.
     

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