It is not your money anymore

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Michael Goff, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. Michael Goff macrumors G3

    Michael Goff

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    Jul 5, 2012
    #1
    This is likely to be a heated topic, but it bears being discussed anyway. The money that goes into taxes isn't your money anymore. It ceases to be your money the instant you pay taxes. It might be your money again, if somehow you get the same bills back for whatever reason, but it is not your money. The logic of "I don't want my money paying for X, Y, or Z" predicates the notion that it is your money being spent.

    It isn't.

    Imagine you walk into McDonald's. You then buy a cheeseburger and go about eating it. You then learn that the head of the company spent 200m on a giant golden statue of Ronald McDonald. You then can go up to him and say that you don't want our money being spent like that, right?

    Well, I guess you can... free speech and all that. Is it your money, though? No. And for those who will inevitably point out that you got something with the burger example, you get something for your taxes. You get to have police officers, firefighters, defended by a military, drive on roads, go to public schools, and so many things that aren't part of the society we live in.

    So, no, it isn't your money being spent on X, Y, and Z. It is the government's money.
     
  2. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #2
    I'd rephrase the last sentence a bit, seeing as the government (theoretically speaking anyway) is run by us, taxes are supposed to be viewed as society's money.

    What we do with it serves as a good indicator of what the country's priorities are. Since WWII it's been pretty clear what America's is, war.
     
  3. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    #3
    You're misunderstanding what people mean when they call it "my money."

    It's my money before the government takes it away from me. And if I'm not happy with what the government proposes to spend it on - or if I feel that they're taking away more than I feel like I'm getting back in return - then yes, I will say I'm not happy with how they're spending my money.

    You see, they continue to take it and spend it. It continues to be your money.

    In your (poor) McDonald's example, substitute Chick-Fil-A instead. Many people know that Chick-Fil-A supports causes that they themselves disagree with. Therefore, they choose not to spend their money at Chick-Fil-A. They don't want "their" money funding the causes Chick-Fil-A supports.

    You're picking nits over semantics. You know what people mean.
     
  4. Michael Goff thread starter macrumors G3

    Michael Goff

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    #4
    Yes, that was worded much better.

    I actually don't. It really seems to me like people think they have a right to pick apart any spending of money because atone point the money was theirs. And no, it doesn't continue to be 'your money'. Also, you can't say I'm misunderstanding something and then say I know it. Either I misunderstand or I don't.

    Voicing displeasure is one thing, but the vitriol over "they're spending my money on what?!" goes above and beyond just voicing displeasure.
     
  5. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    #5
    This is close to becoming playground. You know as well as anyone here that the government takes our money in taxes continuously.

    If the government took a single payment from you in taxes, ever, then you just might have a point. But that's not the case; yesterday, they took some money from you to fund something. Today, they're going to take more money from you and continue to fund it. Tomorrow, they're going to do it again. They're going to go on taking your money and funding something repeatedly (continuously).

    They're taking your money and they're funding something with it. It's a continual process; yes, they took (past tense) your money previously, but they are taking (present progressive tense) more right now and they will take (future tense) more. That's your money, and they're going to spend it how they see fit. And you're well within your right to say, "I don't want my money spent on that." If you genuinely can't see that, then I can't help you; but I suspect you're just being obstinate.
     
  6. Michael Goff thread starter macrumors G3

    Michael Goff

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    #6
    Suspect all you want. My point is that we elect officials to dish out the money to the causes that they were elected to fund. My next point is that they fund it using money that was only previously ours. Once it leaves our hands, it stops being our money. As for the concept that they're always going to be taking out money, yes that is true.

    And we will always be able to rely on roads, police, firefighters, and the list goes on and on.
     
  7. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
    #7
    I think of it more as an investment. Once we hand it over, we no longer have direct control over it, but we should at least have a reasonable expectation that some of it will be put towards uses that represent our best interests.

    Of course with the government being involved with multiple groups with their own interests that may not be directly aligned to ours, we can't expect to have a 100% return on our investment. But so long as the government isn't entirely wasteful about it, and we're all benefited somehow, we shouldn't have too many problems with it.
     
  8. Michael Goff thread starter macrumors G3

    Michael Goff

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    #8
    I was about to say something, but I find nothing that I can disagree with in this post.

    Why do you have to be so darned reasonable? :mad:
     
  9. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #9
    CUZ THAT'S JUST THE WAY I AM, GODDAMNIT! ****!

    [​IMG]
     
  10. mrsir2009 macrumors 604

    mrsir2009

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    #10
    ...Just like when the mafia extorts protection money from you under the threat of your house mysteriously burning down, it's not "your" money anymore -- it's the mafia's. Yes?

    ----------

    Don't forget being spied on.
     
  11. Michael Goff thread starter macrumors G3

    Michael Goff

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    #11
    Oh, okay.

    Are you really drawing a comparison between the mafia and the government?
     
  12. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #12
    I don't recall having a vote in the leadership of the mafia.

    I really don't understand this line of thought. If the government, in some eyes, is nothing but a mafia enterprise (which given the complete control by big business has some elements of truth to it) then how in the hell does a society function?

    I know this usually falls into the "Libertarian" view, but the "go it alone" mentally simply cannot work in a post-agrarian society. We have to many people and too few resources to make it work. Don't forget that every grocery store in the country is only 3-5 days of deliveries away from not having anything at all. There is no way that everyone can have access to the sustenance needed for a healthy lifestyle, you can't hunt and grow the food needed to sustain cities locally, we are far beyond that model here in the real world.
     
  13. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #13
    Yup. That's me. Calm and level headed in all situations.
     
  14. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #14
    The original post has got to be one of the most inane posts I've ever read on this forum.

    Of course it's my money. In the sense that the government represents me (or says it does anyway) so I am able to say I don't want my taxes spent on causes I disagree with. It doesn't mean it will happen; but I can make it known that I don't appreciate the money hey require of me (as my "representative" government) being spent on thighs I'm opposed to.

    It's also your money if you pay taxes. You can and should do the same as me.

    Of course I don't have direct control over it anymore, but I do have a modicum of influence over it (my vote) and I can and should make my voice heard when it's being spent in a way I disagree with.

    Did you really not understand this concept?
     
  15. Michael Goff thread starter macrumors G3

    Michael Goff

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    #15
    Except as a society, we're supposed to out our wants secondary. Or are you saying you know what is best for the community as a whole?
     
  16. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #16
    Are you?

    In society, we're supposed to contribute. Questioning the use of public funds (of whichc a portion were contributed by me) is part of contributing to society.
     
  17. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #17
    The government answers to the people, not the other way around.
     
  18. Michael Goff thread starter macrumors G3

    Michael Goff

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    #18
    Ah, you think you're contributing when you blindly say "I don't want my money spent..."? Really?

    And every election they answer. But surely you aren't telling me that every penny they spend is another 'I wonder what the tax payers think' as opposed to a general attitude of whether or not our society as a whole is benefitting.
     
  19. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #19
    Its probably 90% 'I hope no one finds out what we are really doing here' and 10% 'hey guys look what we are doing here for you!'
     
  20. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #20
    Spending money on things I don't think are a good idea is the very reason we create Governments in the first place.

    Speaking completely selfishly, I'm mad about any money that is spent anywhere, on any purpose, other than making me happy. If the Federal Government builds a highway someplace I never drive, from my selfish perspective - its just a total waste. The only "good" Government spending is when they send me a check or fix the potholes in front of my house.

    Of course, society wouldn't work on that basis. And anyone not a complete moron understands the societal good that comes from having an educated population; clean water; safe highways; and all the other nice things that come from having a Government.

    The "they are spending my money" meme is a method of personalizing the Government spending, and appealing to sympathy at the injustice of being forced to pay (directly or indirectly) for something the writer does not agree with.

    Its generally a better idea to try and put the "bad spending" into some sort of perspective: If you pay $10,000 in Federal Income tax; as part of an over all budget of $2 trillion; and the Government spends ten billion on something you really disapprove of; the actual amount of "your money" turns out to be pretty tiny.
     
  21. Michael Goff thread starter macrumors G3

    Michael Goff

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    #21
    That's unhealthy paranoia.

    ----------

    Well, it seems a lot of people are just better at wording things than me.
     
  22. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #22
    The percentages could be a bit extreme, but the general idea seems correct.
     
  23. Michael Goff thread starter macrumors G3

    Michael Goff

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    #23
    Even if I disagree with the premise, the percentages are just what make it paranoia.
     
  24. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #24
    Clearly my tax money is not my money anymore. This is a popular figure of speech (which is getting old). But, it does bring up an interesting point. Some charity umbrella campaigns allow you to designate which charity you want to donate to. I like that, because I like charities that I know, and, that I know don't spend all the money on keeping someone's in-laws employed.

    I wonder what it would actually look like if governments allowed people to do that? Some people would designate their taxes for defense spending, others for food assistance, others for roads, etc. Maybe they could take 10% off the top for funding things that no one ever wants to (e.g. paying lawyers), but, suppose that 90% of the tax money could be designated for a specific category of appropriations? I wonder what it would look like? Has anyone ever actually studied this? (This could be someone's thesis for all I know.)
     
  25. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    Oct 27, 2009
    #25
    If you benefit from anything paid by the taxes you pay, it's your money. I doubt anyone can say they are not benefiting from tax dollars. Now if voters weren't so easily manipulated, the people would have more control over taxes. But it seems big business runs the show.

    ----------

    How would you get a proper budget from that? I don't think it would work.
     

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