It's not just the bad guys...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by EvilQueen, Sep 22, 2014.

  1. EvilQueen macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Location:
    In my own world
    #1
    It's not just the bad guys we think about. You are responsible for your own safety. Police won't help you in this situation.

    Probably a hundred things they could have done different, but if someone in the group had a firearm then this might have ended differently.

    Bear Attacks Hiker
     
  2. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    #2
    It is legal to shoot bears in an act of self-defense. It is not considered advisable. Most people have terrible marksmanship, so they are more likely to anger the bear than stop it. The group would have been better off with bear spray than a firearm.
     
  3. Aspasia macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Location:
    Halfway between the Equator and North Pole
    #3
    Horrible event.

    Running from a bear is never a good move. The group would have been better off had they stayed together and started yelling and screaming at the bear. Safety in numbers. But when we're frightened, we don't always think clearly.
     
  4. samiwas macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    #4
    Oh my God!! You've changed my mind! This kind of situation had never occurred to me!!

    :rolleyes: What's your point again, besides the aforementioned "if they had a gun"?
     
  5. EvilQueen thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Location:
    In my own world
    #5
    Well....we'll just have to disagree with that. I am quite sure that I would be able to hit a bear at a longer distance with my gun than with the spray, although I also carry the spray in the field with my firearm. Guns also make big noises and more often than not, that's all you need to run a black bear off.

    We aren't talking about a grizzly or a polar bear here.

    ----------

    Agree. No idea why they ran. Running from a predator is always a bad move.

    ----------

    Let me guess....you would have called 911 and waited for the police to come and help.:rolleyes: Are you actually saying that a gun may not have helped? Not even you could be that stubborn.
     
  6. samiwas macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    #6
    That's not what I'm saying at all. I guess you must still think that most of us want guns completely banned. If that's the premise of your thread, then it's a completely false premise.
     
  7. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    #7
    I can't attest to your personal skill with a firearm. I said most people are terrible marksmen. That may not apply to you, and with the issue isn't constrained to hit or miss. If you shoot it in the torso, you are likely to have an angrier bear that can still kill you. The point of the bear spray was that the stuff hurts their eyes and clouds vision. Gunshots make a lot of noise, but if they don't hit the target, they may endanger others.


    I'm aware of the differences. Black bears are more likely to attack you than grizzlies.
     
  8. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #8
    I would use a spray BEFORE a gun as well. spray will work well on both bears & PETA clowns out on the trails.
     
  9. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    #9
    That's funny, although PETA occasionally publishes a good article. It's not common, but I can post examples.
     
  10. EvilQueen thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Location:
    In my own world
    #10
    Endanger others in the woods? I guess it's a remote possibility. But if I am fighting for my life, that's what I am concerned with.

    Bear spray is only effective at very close range and it's not effective at all if the wind is not in your favor.

    Most experts agree that any gun is better than no gun. People in Alaska don;t even go to the outhouse without a gun for bear protection.
     
  11. vrDrew macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #11
    To have a reasonable chance of stopping a bear attack with a firearm, you would need to carry a fairly large calibre rifle. A .375 or .450 at the least. People have managed to bring down attacking bears with large-calibre handguns, but its a low percentage shot for someone not quite experienced - and even then you need to be lucky.

    In most hiking situations and camping situations, you are constrained greatly by the amount of weight you can carry. And lugging around a 15 or 20 pound firearm and ammunition is a pretty poor investment.

    Bear attacks do happen. But of the bears found in North America only the Grizzly would be considered dangerous. You won't find any Grizzly bears in the woods in New York State.

    The are far better strategies for dealing with bears: Don't leave food scraps or trash around. Make enough noise that you don't accidentally surprise a bear. Never come between a female and its cub. And, if a bear is encountered, don't run. Stay in a group (if you are in one), raise your hands above your head to appear larger, and back slowly away from the animal. A can of bear repellent spray only weighs a couple of ounces, and can provide psychological protection - if nothing else.

    Every year tens of millions of Americans go hiking in our nation's Parks and Forests without getting attacked by bears. Far more people are killed in the outdoors by lightning strikes and exposure than animal attacks.

    Its sad that some people think packing heat is the answer to every one of life's problems.
     
  12. DonJudgeMe macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Location:
    Arizona
    #12
    I don't own any guns. But I'm with you on this one. When I go camping where I know there is a chance of bears, I borrow my uncles 12 gauge. I don't want to be close enough to use bear spray. I have some but if something goes down I'm firing one warning and two to kill.;)
     
  13. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2007
    Location:
    America's Third World
    #13
    I know a guy who has a DNR permit to keep a black bear that has basically been raised as a pet. He's a pretty big ol' boy, weighting about 250 lbs. and standing 6 feet on his hind legs. I've petted him, and he feels as solid and muscular as a horse.

    I've encountered black bears in the woods, and luckily they all moved away once they saw me. But if I ran into a angry, full-sized black bear in the woods that thought I was going to eat its cubs, in terms of handguns, unless I had at least a .44 Magnum with me I probably wouldn't start acting like Dirty Harry (Do you feel lucky? Well do you, bear?.)

    If I had a .357 with even a 6" barrel I'd probably be even more polite to Mr./Mrs. Bear. Now if I had a .460 S&W Magnum I might have a different attitude.

    If I had only a 5-shot snub-nose .38 Special I'd try my damnedest to think of another option other than reenacting Custer's Last Stand, and if there weren't any, I'd probably take four well placed shots and then save the last round for myself. Because the bear would probably still be moving very well under he/her own power and mad as hell.
     
  14. DonJudgeMe macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Location:
    Arizona
    #14

    1. I find it is great investment. It builds strength and keeps me calm. Its not like Im running through the woods.

    2. Male black bears are no joke. https://www.redorbit.com/news/science/2045489/lone_male_black_bears_are_most_dangerous/

    3. Maybe, but theres only one way to guarantee that I walk away, and thats if he doesnt.
     
  15. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #15
    CALIBER is NOT as important as shot placement
    here.
    [​IMG]

    adjust sarcasm meter when reading please.
     
  16. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2007
    Location:
    America's Third World
    #16
    Always hike with a (tasty) friend, you're saying? :eek:
     
  17. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #17
    nah, you might like your friend, take a politician or door to door salesman, you wont feel as bad if you do end up knee capping him :p
     
  18. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Location:
    Somewhere
    #18
    Source please.
    The research seems to disagree with you
    One study, it's behind a paywall, but you can read the abstract and I quoted a bit from the conclusion below, I even bolded a bit for you.

    And another study on bear spray...

    And as for the argument that the wind might effect it, here's a quote about that in case you can't access the full study.

    I'll be waiting to see your sources...
     
  19. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #19
    If by "most experts" you mean Ted Nugent.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #20
    Thanks for ruining my night. Ted is s loud mouth moron
     
  21. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    #21
     
  22. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Location:
    quae tangit perit Trump
    #22
    Yeah, I've been stalked by a Mountain Lion and it's an incredibly uneasy feeling to realize that she's been silently following you for miles and could have dropped on your shoulders.

    As for the whole, "it's not just the bad guys..." argument:

    From the article:

     
  23. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2007
    Location:
    America's Third World
    #23
    That seems like a fair assessment. Black bears are fairly common in my area, and the ones I've encountered have simply retreated once they've spotted me. Some of the old timers here have claimed they would readily defend their cubs, but I've heard other claim that black bears aren't nearly as touchy in that regards as grizzlies -- for a black bear, most reactions are probably more due to fear than aggression.

    Still, black bears can get to be good sized creatures, with sharp claws and teeth. I wouldn't want to make one mad, or fearful. At times, even a 'possum will snarl and show his teeth rather than rolling over and playing dead. :p
     
  24. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    #24
    I can't find any of those claims related to bear attacks.
     
  25. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Location:
    Somewhere
    #25
    I highly doubt he will be coming back to post any sources for his claims. He was just posting this and either hadn't done any research or was hoping on one else would do research into his claims.

    ----------

    Polar bears and the occasional sick bear can be predatory, but even then bear spray is more effective than a firearm.
     

Share This Page