ITT Tech Inst schools closing down.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by PracticalMac, Sep 6, 2016.

  1. PracticalMac, Sep 6, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016

    PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #1
    ITT Technical Institute to Close After Government Cuts Off New Funding

    They have issues for a long time, but this guy pointed out some reasons it failed I think are close to mark.


    Education and health care, should they be about profits, or improvements for the individual?
    (EDIT 9/12: Not including "Non-Profit" and "Not-For-Profit", as and net profit is spent to improve institution)

    Project XQ and boyinaband are challenging the fundamental goals of current US schools. What I see is the privatization attempts are trying to work around the ancient education structure, when what really needs to be done is build a new structure from scratch.


    ======================UPDATE=====================================

    PBS Frontline will have a program about this on Tuesday, Sept 13.
    Great timing!
     
  2. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #2

    Interest in apprenticeship programs continues to increase from the standpoints of high schools, industry and state and federal governments as a way to gain skill sets desired by industry without having kids go into massive debt to get qualified. Taking a chapter from European industry where apprenticeships historically produced needed skills on the job, adapting the idea to US venues where local industry and high schools can work hand in hand, sometimes using federal or state seed money.

     
  3. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    Not saying the goals are bad, but the article says ITT was not delivering the expected quality, claiming ITT focused more on profits than properly trained individuals.
     
  4. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    "1) An educational organization should never be a publicly traded company - students will inevitably be used as pawns to chase the enigma of growth.

    2) Until you cap the maximum annual amount for student federal loans, you're going to have rampant corruption at the university level. For-profit universities are just using the governments lack of self-awareness to chase easy money. If there is no ceiling, and the government continues to forgive loans, what's to stop this easy money?

    3) It's apparent that nobody truly wants the burden of training our citizens - not the government, not our corporations, not even the private sector. We must figure out an effective solution to quickly and cheaply take mediocre high school students and turn them into viable job candidates with actual technical skills. Let's look to other countries, like China and Germany, and and take their best practices. We're not the leaders here anymore and we need to face the facts."

    Not trying to defend ITT, but these problems exist in public colleges as well.
     
  5. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #5
    ^^this


    There already is a cap.

    Otherwise, yes, for-profit universities are using any means necessary to chase easy money. Without government backed loans, the private institutions would love it more... in either case, who owns or backs the loan is still secondary to a more obvious issue, which I've pointed out often in the past (companies want people with the higher degrees, to the point that a high school degree is useless for even baristas pushing beverages.)

    Everyone wants everything for free. How can a society function so lopsidedly?

    That said, I agree with that third point as well.

    Private or public, though worse in private*. the core problems still exist. It is systemic. Which candidates for presidency, congress, etc, will address these issues in upcoming debates?

    * despite the existing irony where it is said the private sector can do everything better and for less, the college sector provides a great exception to the claimed rule
     
  6. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    Well, you know the claim the free market can do everything better is the favorite mantra of a certain political party, despite statistics that prove certain services can be more efficient as a government entity.

    The issue is not Public or Private, its independent oversight. Making sure the goals are reached
     
  7. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    The real irony is that government created the problem(government backed non-discharge able loans) and people are asking the government to fix the problem.
     
  8. mildocjr macrumors 65816

    #8
    Not delivering the expected quality... that's putting it lightly, I've seen resumes not even get looked at because the school was ITT. Even in their response in USA Today

    "We have always carefully managed expenses to align with our enrollments. We had no intention prior to the receipt of the most recent sanctions of closing down despite the challenging regulatory environment that now threatens all proprietary higher education..."

    I don't see anything in there about them giving two shakes about their students education. It was about making sure they get their money without actually caring about what happens to the students. Seems like the average Associates degree from them is ~40,000, bachelors is ~80-90,000. How did they expect students to pay for that, if they can't even get a job with ITT on their resume?
     
  9. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #9
    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-itt-tech-20160906-snap-story.html

    Read it, but one question should be asked: If the free market actually did what it claimed, regarding ability to regulate itself, then would there be any problem regarding price, quality of education*, and so on? But while everyone was saying something should be done, someone finally does, then read comments bitching about "How government gets into everything is like communism and totalitarianism" and other bull... and don't forget how companies also have their own bureaucracies, but for their own goals (which are not governing people fairly but for personal profit, sometimes at the expense OF people...) And also be on the lookout for posts that say "learn your lesson kids" as if fraud and fleecing people is no less wrong than blaming the victim of rape, because financial rape lasts just about as long as the memories of being physically assaulted and raped. Now feel pity for those who endured both...



    * look at all the business griping Americans aren't educated enough**, quite the circumstantial evidence if four fellow corporate countrymen have kept saying that and you're free to find all the articles I've posted on that in the past and others that say the same things... you're free to look up refuting articles, too... just don't live it because living and sharing your experiences won't be believed, apparently, or at least on other issues so why not on this one as well...

    ** but are too lazy to step in despite taking lots of taxpayer-funded entitlements or tax breaks elsewhere that we have to make up for
     
  10. Gutwrench Contributor

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    Dang. Leon Wiggins II is seriously hacked off.
     
  11. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    I'm all about social democracy and society seeking an optimal location on the spectrum of capitalist-incentives socialist-ameliorations. Education and healthcare are both problems for capitalism. (That said, I think there has been and can continue be a large place for private non-profit in education.)

    I also like to draw a distinction between education and training. Education has long term goals. An educated individual has learned a broad range of higher-level information, and has learned how to learn. The long-term and non-specific nature of true education makes it a poor candidate for a market-oriented approach.

    On the other hand, ITT and similar schools make no pretense of providing education. Their goal is to provide training that can be applied immediately in the labor market. That should be amenable to a market-based solution. It isn't clear to me what has been going wrong with these private training schools, but, in order to cope with the situation, I think that the schools should probably develop standardized courses with transferable credit. It is tough, though-- the market changes quickly for different kinds of training, and, it can cost a lot of money to develop standards.
     
  12. bent christian Suspended

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  13. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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  14. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

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  15. Praxis91 macrumors regular

    Praxis91

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    #15
    Private education is still superior to public.
     
  16. satcomer macrumors 603

    satcomer

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    #16
    I went to a private College called RIT and thought the classes (Quarter System at my time) and that prepared me for the high intensive atmosphere of the corporate world!
     
  17. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #17
    Why?
     
  18. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    Saw the show. I was a little disappointed. It seemed abbreviated or unfinished. Still, it was very damning, and, actually, helped me understand why the flow of government money was cut off abruptly.
     
  19. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    Source?

    Yes, agree. Usually Frontline digs deep, so they where lacking usable materiel.
    Although it was mostly critical, that company (Zenith?), a collection agency trying to be non-profit replacement gave and honest and optimistic outlook, Frontline seemed to be a little to harsh about them.
     
  20. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    Well, you got to hand it to that all-efficient private sector to provide an essential public service like education. With a private market, what could possibly go wrong? Yes siree, Bob. Those of us working in public sector education are just hacks - our unions just ruin everything.
     
  21. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    Smells like irony.
     

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