Jesse Jackson and the Atlanta Braves (split from "Official 2007 MLB Season Thread")

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by furcalchick, May 8, 2007.

  1. furcalchick macrumors 68020

    furcalchick

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    #1
    jesse jackson and his crew of annoying losers try to degrade the braves: http://mvn.com/mlb-braves/2007/05/08/jackson-brings-his-crucade-to-the-ted/

    it's great to get more black interest in the game, but forced diversity isn't the answer, and it doesn't work (i'm talking about recent times), it only closes doors for those that want to get into the area. the truth is most blacks aren't interested in playing baseball, and they want to play other sports instead.

    we don't have a crisis of no black players in the sport, i'm sick of people trying to say that we're getting back to jackie robinson levels like we're shutting out blacks. and also, it degrades jackie saying he was there only for blacks, and not for the rest of the non white americans in the sport today.

    i'm not going to talk much else on jesse jackson here (he's annoying to start with), but i would like to get your thoughts. i have no problem with no black people on certain teams. i guess these people would like to believe we are in 1967 when blacks had no rights. but now in 2007, blacks have just as much chance as whites, but i feel people like jesse jackson are just hindering progress.
     
  2. iKwick7 macrumors 65816

    iKwick7

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    #2
    It's total b.s (and so is Reggie) and everyone knows it. I forget who said it during the whole Jackie Robinson week thing, but someone said that it's not that baseball is shutting out blacks, its that many blacks would rather be playing basketball. Or football. It has nothing to do with the sport shutting anyone out. Total political garbage, I say.


    Anywho.... how about that Menkeivitz (i am not even going to try and look up the spelling..... if he continues doing this good I'll take the time :)) play at first base today? Where it looked like a football play of sorts, with the diving and then diving to the base. Very cool.
     
  3. mattscott306 macrumors 68040

    mattscott306

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    #3
    I agree, it's complete crap. I seriously doubt there is any team that is currently trying to stop black players from playing for them. Why punish teams for the fact that there is decreased african american interest in playing the game?

    You can't say that team descriminates if rosters are chock full of islanders and latinos. You go where the talent leads you, it's as simple as that.
     
  4. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #4
    So Jesse went from Imus who called black players names to the Braves who don't have any black player names.:rolleyes: :D
     
  5. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #5

    If you want to throw around ignorant statements about the Rev. Jackson, I'd be happy to debate you in the political threads. I've worked on many campaigns, from death squads in El Salvador to Strawberry Workers in Watsonville, California in which Jackson provided meaningful help when no one else would, and he has a very long history of work that stands up extremely well.

    If you don't believe baseball has a problem then perhaps you haven't really looked. Start first with baseball's history. Not just before Jackie broke the color line, but after as well. Did you know it took until 1959 for all the major league clubs to be integrated? The Red Sox were the last. Did you know that major league clubs, including the Dodgers, had limits on the number of black players who could be on a club at any given time throughout much of the 50s and 60s? Not openly spoken about by the teams, but the limits existed. In fact, it is all the way until the 1971 Pirates that a team explicitly brakes with this and opens it team to the best players regardless of race. Do you know when the first black manager in baseball was hired? Frank Robinson broke that color line as late as 1975 in the American League and 1981 in the National League. Most teams have no history of black managers still to this day. The hiring of african-americans to meaningful management positions, particularly as General Managers, still lags other sports like the NBA. So given that history it is amazing that people can so easily dismiss the concerns from Rev. Jackson and others.

    Yes, there are historical developments that have lessened the ties of baseball to black communities, but at the same time baseball has done nothing to try to change that until recently. It is not only a question of getting playing fields and coaches back into the inner cities of our country, but it is also a question of scouting and promotion of athletes in the media campaigns of baseball. Not all of this is just the responsibility of MLB, as there are larger societal problems involved as well (i.e. the funding of sports in urban schools, etc.) but to so easily dismiss the real concerns as "complete crap" is, well, complete crap.
     
  6. mattscott306 macrumors 68040

    mattscott306

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    #6
    Were we debating the fact that baseball had an effed up race problem? No.

    Were we debating the fact that Rev. Jackson has been helpful in many areas in promoting equality? No.

    The problem, IMO, is that blacks are being drawn to basketball and football, thus drying up the well of talent from that community. When a talented african american player comes up, he'll get signed. Bonds, the Braves Willy Harris, Jimmy Rollins, all of them are great atheletes, and deserve the spots they have earned on their roster, and no one is arguing that point. Why go after the Braves? I know for a fact that they have a great inner-city program working for them. Why blame them because they have one African American player? They are doing their part.
     
  7. aloofman macrumors 68020

    aloofman

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    #7
    Is it really a problem that fewer African-Americans are playing baseball? One could make a strong argument that Jackie helped integrate other sports besides baseball, so the fact that so many NBA players are black is part of his legacy. I doubt Jackie would be upset just because they chose a sport besides baseball. There was a time, about a hundred years ago, when many of the best boxers were Jews, but now it's hard to imagine that. What changed? Eventually fewer Jews wanted to be boxers or didn't have to for financial reasons. This is the kind of discrimination that everyone can accept: the choice to just not want to participate if you don't want to.

    Sayhey is right that some biases still persist in sports. You wonder why a disproportionately low number of pitchers and quarterbacks are black, for example. Since plenty of black players have played for the Braves, including recently, I'm not sure why it's such a big deal. Statistically, such oddities are bound to happen. It was against the odds for the Pirates to field an all-black starting lineup in the early 1970s, but it happened. It wasn't proof that the Pirates were favoring them back then, and the Braves not having any doesn't mean they're excluding them now.

    I wouldn't deny the great work that he's done. But I do take issue with some of his recent trends of 1) acting as the "black community"'s spokesman when he can't and shouldn't speak for all of them, 2) taking someone's side solely based on race (the Duke lacrosse team uproar, for example), and 3) demanding that offenders gain public atonement through him, when only a long-term change in attitude and deeds really addresses racism. I'm sure that there are so many things he's done that we don't hear about, as is always the case with an activist who genuinely cares. But in recent years he's made some PR gaffes that undermine those deeds.
     
  8. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #8
    I don't see Jackson argue that there are not enough black hockey players. Maybe there are no TV cameras there.
     
  9. mattscott306 macrumors 68040

    mattscott306

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    #9
    Interesting article about black hockey players. Very tiny statistics.
     
  10. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

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    #10
    I counted 4 or so on a quick glance through the Braves' active roster alone. I didn't count Hispanics and other minorities since I'm guessing JJ doesn't care about them here. I'll also surmise he forgot about Andruw Jones, who's been with the Braves for 11 years now. Or maybe he doesn't count either as he's not a proper "African-American" being from the Netherlands and all.
     
  11. mattscott306 macrumors 68040

    mattscott306

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    #11
    Well, we actually only have one: Willy Harris (two if you count our hitting coach, pendelton) but the others are islanders, and thus apparently don't count as African Americans...
     
  12. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

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    #12
    Maybe to appease JJ, The Emperor of Black People, (re:South Park) they could bring Hank Aaron out of retirement.
     
  13. mattscott306 macrumors 68040

    mattscott306

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    #13
    He is actually going to start taking an increased roll in his job with the braves. (he's one of the head guys)
     
  14. furcalchick thread starter macrumors 68020

    furcalchick

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    #14
    something i don't get though is why jesse jackson thinks the bonds thing is race related and breaking the record. i say that has very little on why they don't want to break it, also note that hank aaron is also black. this is mostly due to his alleged steroid use and being perceived as a not so nice guy. and i know most atlanta fans don't want bonds to break the record because of hank aaron and everything. if bonds was white, i doubt there would be much change.
     
  15. mattscott306 macrumors 68040

    mattscott306

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    #15
    McGuire got a lot of crap about being a 'roids user. I agree, no one is being racist, honestly I'm tired of Jackson's bull crap he puts out. The issue is NOT about race, but it is about using steroids.
     
  16. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #16
    The fact is that if there are no cameras or glory for JJ then he doesn't say anything. All this proves is that JJ is a camera whore.
     

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