Jesus and Santa are both white guys

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by rdowns, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #1
    I learn something new everyday.

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/...tm_campaign=Feed:+TheRawStory+(The+Raw+Story)
     
  2. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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  3. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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  4. Huntn, Dec 12, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #4
    Verifiable fact, lol, I would expect no less from Faux News!
     
  5. Tilpots macrumors 601

    Tilpots

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    #5
    That's great and all, but what the hell is Mrs. Claus' first name? I guess I could narrow it down with this new info, now that I know it's a white girl's name. 'Cause Santa prolly wouldn't date outside of his race judging by the fact I've never seen a crossbred elf. Crap, wait...

    [​IMG]
     
  6. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    It's strange that Fox News host Megyn Kelly (or her producers) would even see this as an issue to bring up.
     
  7. HarryPot macrumors 6502a

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    Wether he is the son of God or not is another thing, but I guess the fact that he did existed and walked this Earth is quite verifiable, isn't it? I mean, as much as any people from that era can be verified to have existed.
     
  8. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #8
    Well the lady at Faux lumped both together. My understanding is that Santa is European folk lore so he could be considered a white male but to call him a historical figure? I thought that term was reserved for "real" people.

    As far as I know, the Bible makes no significant remarks about Jesus's race and as far as being verified, I've read that other than biblical texts, for being such a significant figure, there are no historical city/state type records that describe Jesus nor Pontious Pilate's conflict with him. When thinking of Jesus, especially as the Son of God, I think it is better to consider him part of one's faith, because as much as some of would like to believe, he is not the verified SoG in any factual manner.
     
  9. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    #9
    "Quite verifiable"? Really?

    There's the paragraph from The Antiquities of the Jews, written by Josephus, ~95 C.E., that may or may not be a forgery and/or altered, but what other historical proof is there exactly?
     
  10. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #10
    To assure their religious core viewers. In their circle, it's very important that Santa and Jesus are white men.

    ----------

    It's interesting that an ancient document is taken as "gospel" (proof) just because it exists and is appealing? For all we know the author was working on his next novel. :)
     
  11. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    Antiquities of the Jews is frequently cited as a "historical source", but some seem to question it. For example, ye ol' Wikipedia article about it says:

    So I dunno... It's not an area I've spent very much time exploring. But I get the impression the "historical evidence" claim get cited frequently, but few seem to really examine it.
     
  12. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #12
    It's fascinating to think about how the portrayal of Jesus and Santa Claus have been curated and adjusted over the years to reflect the cultures they're in.

    It's also fascinating to consider just how unaware people are about the history of these images, and how the Greek bishop Saint Nicholas was remixed with images of Odin and Dutch folklore before being remade by Coca-Cola ads to become the character we love.

    Jesus was remade again and again depending on the purposes of the artist. Sometimes he has a beard, sometimes he's wearing military dress. His hair changed color, and Ethiopian artists drew him to look more like them while El Greco gave him a distinctly Spanish pallor.

    And, ultimately, it points to how we create rules when they're none. Santa Claus can pull at least a dozen completely magical tricks, why can't he appear in different guises depending on whether he's delivering presents in Beijing, Bahir Dar, or Birmingham.
     
  13. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #13
    He was based off of St. Nicholas who was a real person. He was Greek, so he would have been white, not really sure why it should matter though.
     
  14. Wild-Bill macrumors 68030

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  15. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #15
    Buddha is always looking Asian, Muhammad was an Arab, Confucius was chinese, But Jesus wasn't a white guy.
     
  16. Huntn macrumors G5

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    #16
    I'm open to the concept of an historical Jesus. I have more issue with determining his status as the Son of God.

    If I offer a references such as my quote below, I'm sure that a believer can counter with their own article stating the factual existence of Jesus, SoG. It seems like it mostly boils down to what you want to believe, disbelieve, or hold as undecided. I have to hope what I choose to believe is not based on my hopes and desires, but on some factual basis. The problem with documents from this time period, is that someone wrote them, but does that in itself apply some/any standard of truth to them? The axiom, "history is written by the winners" seems to apply in a round about way in that everything written by human beings is prejudiced in some manner, even science. We have to hope that when it comes to science and fact, that human beings can see what is really there and not inject what they want there to be.

    (source)

    It's called "marketing"! :) However I think that lumping Santa with Jesus tends to diminish the validity (whatever validity is imagined) of Jesus to a folklore figure.
     
  17. hulugu, Dec 12, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013

    hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #17
    Well, Buddha should rightfully look Indian, though his image changes with the culture. Confucius was Chinese and we have images of him that are contemporary.
    Muhammad was from Mecca and the images that portray him are often consistent, though images are rare.

    I would argue that they're both folklore figures, but you're right, it's about marketing. Christianity and Islam were willing to bring in Pagan traditions to fit within the local religion and place their god atop a pantheon of saints and d'jinn. We see this in Japan, where Shinto and Christianity continue to exist side-by-side. We see this in Christmas, where Pagan yuletide rituals began the celebration of the birth of Christ, and in the incorporation of folk figures like the Virgin of Guadalupe.

    All told, religion is about marketing and the most successful religions have balanced between bringing a strict ideology and making sure the local accept it.

    So, what was the way of selling Christianity to the Germanic peoples has become Christmas and the idea that Christ is a blond, blue-eyed white guy rather than the Semite he really was.
     
  18. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #18
    Saint Nicholas does not equal Santa... there is no historical basis for the legend. :)
     
  19. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #19
    I'm trying to care less about this issue, but I had to post my disdain. :( This is dumb.
     
  20. rdowns thread starter macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #20

    Nope. More likely a brown or olive skinned liberal.
     
  21. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    The fact that Kelly called Jesus and Santa "white guys" remains fascinating because of what it tells us about our culture, which is an overt concern for the "whiteness" of popular folk figures and the fear that these images might be subverted or rewritten.

    That's a fascinating shift, IMHO.
     
  22. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    #22
    Decades before the Coca-Cola ad, Thomas Nast and Louis Prang were "reinventing" Santa Claus/Saint Nicholas/Kris Kringle/Father Christmas, in magazines and postcards. The circa 1885 (Prang) postcard, below, isn't that different from the Coca-Cola version.

    [​IMG]
     
  23. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #23
    I don't have the time to look up a reference this morning, but my impression is that not only did the Catholic church incorporate a Pagan Holiday into Christianity, they moved the birth date of their Order's honorary* founder as a means of drawing Pagans to their way of thinking. :)

    *Honorary is used because as far as I know Jesus never advocated, nor attempted to start a new church. He was a Jew, counseling other Jews on a better way. It is rather amazing the disdain Christianity over the centuries has show towards the Jewish faithful.
     
  24. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #24
    am I the only one who found the most horrifying aspect of this entire 'argument' to be that Harris proposes to put PENGUINS at the NORTH POLE? :D

    This entire diatribe is demented, but as far as the ethnic makeup, an historical Santa would be white/nordic, whereas an historical Jesus would be caucasian/middle eastern. it is what it is.

    that said, what difference does it make how people chooses to represent them?
    And as someone else pointed out above, if he can big-brother every kid in the world, read their minds, survive and thrive in a frozen floating wasteland, materialize gifts, fly faster than Superman, fit into thin chimney chutes notwithstanding his ponderous girt and the above mentioned gifts (without damaging them or the chimneys), and this even when no fireplace is available, all while managing to never be spotted by his 'targets' on their full alert, his is it a stretch that he could simply change his complexion to match that of the kid he is visiting?

    but again then why, if people do chose to represent them in a non-traditional way, would they complaint when their representation doesn't fit the more traditional one? duh-uh?
    Personally, i always used the Santa has Santa-looking helpers to explain the proliferation of Santas with my kids, as well as the various looks.
     
  25. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

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    #25
    Here in Atlanta, it depends on which mall you're in. :)
     

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