Joel Osteen on Gays

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Simgar988, Jan 24, 2011.

  1. Simgar988 macrumors 65816

    Simgar988

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    #1
    Joel Osteen's argument about gays can be found here:

    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/01/24/piers.osteen.homosexuality.cnn?hpt=T2

    There are a few things clear to me...

    1. He's not making his own decisions, hes taking the scriptures word willy nilly... almost as an excuse.

    2. He somehow thinks hes not judging them... because he's judging the act and not the person. He claims to be open and accepting, and that he's "not against them" which seems to be a favorite argument with many people.

    3. He doesn't particularly like talking about the subject, maybe because he knows its a touchy subject (I don't know why this would bother him, because the people he surrounds himself with shares the same views.), or because he's having some sort of change of heart... having a hard time accepting his beliefs.

    Just what I got out of it,

    Regardless, it's here to discuss.
     
  2. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #2
    Another one, huh? I bet his closet is a walk-in.
     
  3. chrismacguy macrumors 68000

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    #3
    Don't forget the double bed inside ;)
     
  4. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #4
    Honestly- there is no point arguing with religious bigots. No amount of evidence will convince them they're wrong. They base everything on "belief", so how can you fight that? They're not interested in the actual truth. They're interested in what they wish the truth to be.
     
  5. redwarrior macrumors 603

    redwarrior

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    #5
    I thought it was a good interview, but then I understand his points. I have never really liked Osteen that much because I think he takes the easy way out and tries too hard not to step on toes. However, in this case I liked what he said and it is how I feel too.

    The Bible tells us that homosexuality is wrong; it also teaches that promiscuity and overeating are wrong. I am guilty of two of those, so who am I to judge someone who is homosexual? As a Christian, I choose to live my life in a certain way and apply my beliefs to myself. My Bible also tells me not to judge others, so I do my best not to.

    I don't think Osteen was dodging or waffling on anything. He was attempting to make it clear that he is not judging anyone, he is just stating what HIS Bible teaches and what he believes. If any of you have ever listened to his sermons, you know that he does not teach hellfire and brimstone; he is more of a motivational teacher and attempts to empower people with positive messages of love, confidence, and acceptance. He teaches that we should all study the Bible for ourselves and do what we feel is right in our own hearts. I would also like to say that one of the instructions that he clearly gives is that we are not to judge others.
     
  6. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #6
    He should practice what he preaches. Telling a large group of people that they're all sinners is not love or acceptance and he is judging them.
     
  7. redwarrior macrumors 603

    redwarrior

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    #7
    He is teaching the Bible that he believes and that they believe too. He is teaching them to hold on to what they believe is right according to the Bible and also not to judge others. He does not preach about judgement like that much at all from the pulpit, but when asked directly about what HE believes is right or wrong, he answered true. Besides, according to the Bible, everyone on the planet is a sinner; Osteen is not singling out a group of people, and he said in the interview that he wasn't.
     
  8. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #8
    You really haven't spent much time in any church, have you? The bible says we are all sinners. From the lowest of the low, to the highest of the high. From murderers, to clergy, from prostitutes, to Mother Theresa. All humans sin, and are even born with 'original sin.' This is not something any human can escape. His reasonable position, and one I think Red Warrior also effectively described, is that homosexuality is a sin just like all of the other sins... and being a sinner is not something that makes you an evil person, or something that puts you in bad graces with the Father... rather that with belief in Jesus that all of your sins will be forgiven.

    Regardless of your position on homosexuality, regardless of your position on religion, I'd say that Joel's position (I'm not really a big fan either, Red Warrior) on this matter is consistent with the bible and clearly not any more judgmental on this group than he is of any other bible-defined sinning.

    For the record, regarding my personal beliefs, I believe homosexuality to be something you're born with. I also believe that the Federal Government should have no say whatsoever in whether or not two consenting men or two women can 'marry.' Such does not fall within the Federal Government's enumerated powers.
     
  9. eawmp1 macrumors 601

    eawmp1

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    #9
    Wonder when he will walk out?
     
  10. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #10
    Nope. I'm not Christian. Why would I?
     
  11. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #11
    I don't think that gives you an excuse to be ignorant (a description of your knowledge of a topic, not an attack) about the teachings of the church while simultaneously and actively criticizing it's leaders. If you're going to criticize, at least make an effort to better understand what it is that you are criticizing. Original sin is a foundational tenant of Christianity, without understanding it, it would be very hard to speak intelligently regarding alleged hypocricies or inconsistencies within the church.
     
  12. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #12
    I'm not ignorant of the teachings of the church. I think the teachings are wrong. It takes a lot of chutzpah to say that someone else is a sinner when you're not perfect. I don't care what some outdated 2,000 year old book says, until Joel is as perfect as the baby Jesus himself, he needs to take a look in the mirror before calling someone else a sinner.

    When I think of sinners, I think of murderers, rapists, or megachurch pastors like Joel Osteen who milk their blind followers out of millions of dollars. I'm none of those, I don't want to be put in the same group. And someone shouldn't be put in the same group because of who they **** in the privacy of their own bedroom.
     
  13. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #13
    If you were actually aware of the church's teachings you wouldn't have such a narrow-minded view of what 'sinners' are. It's not just murderers and rapists... like I said, so is Mother Theresa. So is Joel Osteen and I'm sure he's stated that fact many times over. People are put in the group of 'sinners' just because they are homosexuals - according to the church they always have been sinners, always will be, and their homosexuality is just one sin among many they've already committed. Your views on the value of such teachings is irrelevant in this case. It's a different conversation. What he's saying is consistent with the bible - period.
     
  14. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    When you say the "church's teachings," are you referring to Joel Osteen's church?
     
  15. Queso, Jan 25, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2011

    Queso macrumors G4

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    #15
    Considering it STILL cannot be said without doubt that the New Testament says homosexuality as opposed to male prostitution is wrong I'm at a loss why Christians see this as such a big issue. Jews would have a bigger claim to hate gays, yet they seem to be completely fine with it (extremist orthodox sects excepted).
     
  16. barkomatic macrumors 68040

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    #16
    Exactly. I gave up arguing with religious right wingers long ago. They simply don't use logic when discussing anything. They sit in church and listen to their preacher tell them they have to hate everyone (except the preacher substitutes the word "hate" with "love" to convince the faithful they are actually being loving Christians when they try to deprive gay people and women of human rights).

    However, its worthy to note that I've met several Christians and Jews who are different--and supportive of human rights for everyone. They try to build people up instead of tear them down.
     
  17. leekohler, Jan 25, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2011

    leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #17
    The Bible is wrong. Period. Something that exists in and of itself cannot be "wrong". It simply is what it is. That's like calling a puppy "wrong" just because it's a puppy and acts like a puppy.
     
  18. peterja macrumors regular

    peterja

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    #18
    "I belive that it's a.. I don't know that I understand it all"

    Not really to be expected if you get your ideas from bronze age mythology.
     
  19. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #19
    The Christian Church



    You realize that the Old Testament is also part of the Christian Church, right?
     
  20. Queso macrumors G4

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    #20
    James 2:10 is quite clear about Leviticus. You either obey the lot or discard the lot. Pick and choose and you look like a hypocrite.

    I hope you enjoy those bacon sandwiches.
     
  21. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #21
    Sounds a lot like "You're either with us or against us." Are you a big GWB fan?
    At any rate, the Bible was written by inspired yet fallible men. To suggest that a belief in God or Jesus Christ requires a blind following of the morality of 5,000 B.C. Mesopotamia, is patently ridiculous. Regardless, this is hardly the thread to have that discussion.

    P.S. I LOVE Bacon! Bippity Boppity Bacon!
     
  22. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #22
    I'm in complete agreement about your assessment of the Bible.

    But why isn't this thread the appropriate place to talk about these issues?
     
  23. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #23
    So why do people like Osteen choose to preach about homosexuality being a sin but not people who eat bacon? Could it be that he's a homophobic bigot and is hiding behind a 2,000 year old book?
     
  24. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #24
    The thread seems to be specifically about Joel Osteen's comments on homosexuality, not my opinion (or yours) regarding the intelligence/piety of taking every word of the scripture literally, or whether it was written by fallible or infallible men.



    First, some say the specific passage (Deuteronomy 14) relating to the eating of pork is written only for 'God's Chosen People', the Jews. Second, there aren't many people who would say 'all sins are created equal'. Certainly murder is worse than coveting, etc. Clearly many people think that discussing homosexuality is more worthy of their time than the consumption of pork. Third, I think you're jumping to assumptions and once again discussing things about which you have no idea. Do you know for a fact he hasn't talked about eating pork? I'm pretty sure he has, actually. Do you know he hasn't talked about a variety of other 'sins?' I'm pretty sure he has. I personally remember tuning in to his show one time (the man is an amazingly engaging speaker) and he was talking specifically about not eating shell-fish, etc. which I thought was quite odd.
     
  25. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #25
    Yep- it sure could.
     

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